Upwind strategy?

[Snore]

@soopad00pa

You can fiddle with these calculations or you can do it the pro-way.

1- Using either Predict Wind PRO (big bucks) or Luck Grib (less money) load in the polars for your boat. Both products have a huge library of polars. Even if your boat's is not there, you can find one similar. This will allow you to set your tacking points based on wind, current and your vessel.

2- Hand steering or setting setting a course based on AWA is not as efficient as setting the auto-pilot to hold an AWA. It will automatically steer for the 'lifts and knocks' of the wind gusts. Setting the AP to hold an AWA ensure the sails are not flogged, or overtrimed/overloaded because of a minor shift in wind angle. When I set the AP to an AWA, I also give a standing order to wake me if the course goes above X or below Y.

[soopad00pa]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Nav in a nutshell: How to deal with wind shifts [Tacking inside a ‘cone’]
➥ https://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/nav...d-shifts-46762

Perfect! Thanks.

[soopad00pa]

Originally Posted by Snore

@soopad00pa

You can fiddle with these calculations or you can do it the pro-way.

1- Using either Predict Wind PRO (big bucks) or Luck Grib (less money) load in the polars for your boat. Both products have a huge library of polars. Even if your boat's is not there, you can find one similar. This will allow you to set your tacking points based on wind, current and your vessel.

2- Hand steering or setting setting a course based on AWA is not as efficient as setting the auto-pilot to hold an AWA. It will automatically steer for the 'lifts and knocks' of the wind gusts. Setting the AP to hold an AWA ensure the sails are not flogged, or overtrimed/overloaded because of a minor shift in wind angle. When I set the AP to an AWA, I also give a standing order to wake me if the course goes above X or below Y.

Ah, if only I had such wondrous technology. I'm using a CPT pilot from the late 80s. It does reasonably well if I balance things and the seas aren't too sloppy, tho it struggles downwind.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Nav in a nutshell: How to deal with wind shifts [Tacking inside a ‘cone’]
➥ https://www.pbo.co.uk/seamanship/nav...d-shifts-46762

Tacking cones aren't a strategy per se; they're a mitigation technique. They assume the wind "might" change direction, so you don't want to be too far from the straight-line baseline, when you are forced to change tack.

Strategy is looking at predicted wind shifts and using them to advantage. Take the diagram above, where it's planned to make 5 NW tacks and 5 SW tacks. If you changed that to 1 NW and 1 SW tack, it would be the same distance covered, and if the wind didn't change at all, you'd probably do better as you wouldn't lose time in the added tacks.

If you knew that the wind was predicted to veer as it's shown in the diagram, you could plan one long NW tack against the W'ly wind, and when the wind shifted to NW, you could then tack to a WSW course direct to your destination - fewer tacks and shorter distance to cover overall.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

A strategy not mentioned is to pinch and also employ the assistance of the iron genoa to maintain a reasonable hull speed. This has saved many hours of going nowhere in the short steep chop of Lake Superior.

This some of the resulting waves sets will actually stop the boat if sail only.

I was going to mention this. If you find you are making unacceptably slow progress, adding the engine can really make a huge difference. I'm not sure why this isn't obvious, but it wasn't to me until my uncle pointed it out to me a long time ago.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Snore

@soopad00pa

You can fiddle with these calculations or you can do it the pro-way.

1- Using either Predict Wind PRO (big bucks) or Luck Grib (less money) load in the polars for your boat. Both products have a huge library of polars. Even if your boat's is not there, you can find one similar. This will allow you to set your tacking points based on wind, current and your vessel.

I second 'Luck Grip'. Quite cheap if you already have a phone or iPad, and it also works on my MacBook. Not sure about PCs.

It has a library of polars and you can probably find one close enough for your boat. I actually found the polars for my (fairly uncommon) Joshua 40 with a bit of digging on the Internet.

Note that any calculation based on a weather forecast is bound to be an 'approximation', to say the least. But if you can get updates a couple times a day (I use the ECMWF model), and redo the routing whenever you get a new forecast, the results can be surprisingly useful. It changed my notion of what an acceptable weather window was by quite a lot, and I find myself waiting in port a lot less. It helps that I have a heavy, powerful sailboat that can muscle its way upwind even in fairly ugly weather. If I had a lightweight flyer that got knocked around more, I would still think twice about doing long upwind legs offshore. It's not worth having your teeth pounded out the whole way!

The other thing I would say is 'try it!'. You can waste a lot of time speculating about if you can do this or that. You will learn a lot more just by giving it a go. You can always turn around and head back to the anchorage for another day. I did that this summer trying to get from Falmouth to Cork after waiting a week in port for a 'good' day. We went out to look at the weather ourselves, and after getting beat up a bit in the Channel, we decided that the weather was indeed as bad as the forecast said, and turned around. No shame in that!


Good luck!

[Franziska]

Good Android alternative is SailgribWR:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...om.sailgrib_wr

On an OpenCPN computer you can of course also use the weather routing plug in.

[Sparx]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

Speaking as a full time cruiser I'd wait, good to practice not being in a rush & easier on the crew & boat on passage.

Good advice above.


The wind moves in a cycle between high pressure (clockwise rotation) and lows (counterclockwise rotation). The cruiser can take advantage of this pattern. If the wind is on the nose when heading south out of Cape May I might rest a day but then head offshore in a south by east direction, then turn south as the wind shifts.

Predictwind is excellent for learning the wind patterns and seeing your options. But the caveat is that all of models are just that, computer simulations. Nature has other plans. But by using Predictwind to chose a nice window we just deal with reality once out there.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by soopad00pa

I haven't done any really long upwind stretches, but I'm faced with a couple days of wind on the nose and I'm trying to decide whether to just sit around and wait (again) or to sally forth like a salt. Conditions are forecast to be fairly mellow - 10k, 2ft@8sec - so hopefully it wouldn't be too miserable.

My question - is there a good route finding method of determining tacks most efficiently? I currently point as high and close to my target as I can and then inevitably tack too early and hafta repeat the process filled with shame and frustration. On the flip side, I don't wanna end up halfway to Bermuda before I turn...

Thanks for any insight.

That’s a nice gentle wind. Pick the long tack meaning the tack that brings you closest to you destination. As wind shifts occur reevaluate the long tack. I also suggest you ease off a bit on th AWA and ge a bit more speed and a nicer ride.

Regardless of what boat you had those are beautiful conditions.

[Bill_Giles]

There is plenty of good advice here so I will merely chip in with:
Head towards where the wind is expected to come from next.
Only stay on one tack for half the distance to the point where you must tack.
Monitor your compass course, if you can point higher stay with it, if you have to bear away then tack.
If there is a current keep it under your lee bow.

[CyKlop]

There are a lot of things to consider in your question. The first of all is which to optimize for - speed or comfort. Going upwind, the two are not the same thing.

For instance, assume your boat will make its best VMG pointing directly into the wind. I know, no boat does that, but this is a theoretical boat for illustration purposes.

You will be smashing directly into the waves and, possibly, into the swell. That's not comfortable. Making it even more uncomfortable is that you'll be shortening the interval between the waves because they are coming at you and you're running towards them. The experienced "face" of each wave is going to feel steeper, causing a more violent pitching of the vessel - but you'll be making your best VMG on this, theoretical, boat.

As you turn off the wind, your VMG will drop, but the wave-bashing and, therefore comfort, will also decrease, but at the expense of more time spent.

My personal strategy when cruising is to point the boat to best VMG and then start falling off bit by bit until I find the point where I can say, "Ok, that's good, there."

The other part of this question is departure planning - when to leave the dock. The conditions you outline are pretty benign. For me that's in the "Ok, we're moving" category as opposed to the "Wahooooooo, look at us go!" category. However, if you're not comfortable in those conditions - which depends on the boat, its condition, your experience, your physical condition at the time, and ditto for any other people aboard - it can be a go or a no-go.

The short of it is that noone here can tell you what the right answer is - it's a very personal one that is dependent on a lot of variables that only you can know.

Lastly, there are many computer programs that will also tell you your best/fastest course. Predict Wind also has a setting for comfort, I beleive. However, all of those programs require some sort of "Polar" information - which is a chart of the expected boat speed (not speed over ground!) for a given true wind speed and direction, and though those are often provided by the boat manufacturer, they would be theoretical. It's best to make one for your boat with your expected configuration. Sails stretch, boats weigh different amounts and have different "cleanliness" of their hull. Different people have different trimming abilities.

Many chart plotters can show you the "layline". As long as you are on the "good" side of that line (they use different symbologies, so I can't tell you what that is for your plotter), you can theoretically make it to your destination without tacking. Therefore, one strategy is merely to continue on your tack until the layline shows you can make it, then tack. That's simple and easy. It can get a lot more complicated than that if you want to optimize it. There are multi-thousand dollar computer programs (such as "Expedition" - which is a really cool program) created for racers that runs many many different simulations to figure out the optimal tacking strategy for a given set of winds.

[Montanan]

During the day, one may desire to tack so as to have shade [when it is hot] or to not have shade [when it is cold] for comfort on deck. Consider that when determining your day course and scheduling a night time course when the sun is not a factor.

[s/v Jedi]

Assuming this is for cruising, not competition sailing, the best strategy is a mix between these two approaches:

If the long tack is comfortable, take it whenever there’s enough sea room to make progress to the destination.

If you get an unfavorable windshift, tack. If the new tack is still not the long tack, chances are that the shift continues in the same direction and the new tack becomes more favorable.

If the wind direction is flaky then make comfort a more important factor.

The above needs guidance from a weather grib file. Don’t pin yourself on wind direction from the grib too much because often it’s not so accurate, but the trends for changing wind direction and speed are more reliable.

All modern boats must be able to sail clear from a lee shore. If you feel threatened, try to tack sooner rather than later and keep a close eye to change in true wind direction.

[foreverfreedom]

Seen on a noticeboard at the Royal Yacht Squadron in Cowes:

"Gentlemen do not sail to windward"

Perhaps I should add it was 1st. April (All Fool's Day)

[sailorladd]

When I sailed from The Galapagos islands to Hawaii I recorded one time we sailed on a particular tack (I forget which it was port or starboard) for a record three weeks!

The wind was mild in that area (ITCZ) and we were actually surprised we had any wind at all... The body gets used to the discomfort, and actually at around 10 knots or so, it wasn't that grim of a heel... for perspective, the trip took 50 days [21 of those was on that one tack ]