WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[sandy stone]

The sailing instructions for all of the night races I am aware of do tell the racers to switch to COLREGS (between themselves) after sunset, but this is an instruction from the race committee and not part of the racing rules themselves. Basically, no luffing another racer after dark.

The official racing rules do state that a race boat encountering a non-racing boat at any time shall obey COLREGS. No luffing a non-racing boat. Duh.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I've always hated the use of 'privileged' and 'burdened' when describing the rules. How is the stand-on vessel "privileged"? I would say the stand-on vessel has more of a burden than the give-way vessel.

Well this takes us back to a previous thread, and you allude to it in your post #145:

Originally Posted by Lodesman

All these pathetic "sailors" that sit there in irons with the sails flogging aren't going to be able to get out of the way of the racers, now are they - so it's a moot point. The racers will have to stay out of the way.

Yes, we know that they have to avoid the collision, but if the boat with sails flogging can't get out of the way, would you still say he is partially at fault if there is a collision?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by gordonhinds

My understanding is colreg only kicks in from sundown to sunrise.

Dear o dear , I didnt expect that one.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Come to the Ionian you might change your mind.

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Wow , you need to seriously come sailing in the crowded med, a yacht passing a half boat length in front is considered “ loads of space “ by many. You’d die of fright here.

Apparently they're barely moving, so not really a big deal, no?

Honestly I'd love to see a video of a boat passing half a boat length in front of another.

[gordonhinds]

In ocean racing that is the case. Racing rules cover off the basics during the day. But at night Coreg takes over from the si. Yacht racing rules are more complex especially around rights. Coreg is more about preventing collisions. If you have knowledge otherwise please share.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yes, we know that they have to avoid the collision, but if the boat with sails flogging can't get out of the way, would you still say he is partially at fault if there is a collision?

Very likely. Although the balance will be on a lot of factors, I'd figure the moving vessel will likely bear the larger portion of blame.

[gordonhinds]

It’s a bit of an eye opener that many people don’t seem to know yacht racing rules, and how they apply generally to sailing. A right of way boat does not have right of way if the other boat is unable to keep clear. You can’t just drive into someone. The exception to this is if you are requiring water and the other boat refuses to give it to you. You can tack to avoid a reef, or large object and if you hit the other boat, they are at fault. They prevented you from taking avoiding action. You can of course stop, but that can get tricky as you run out of time pretty fast.

[gordonhinds]

You don’t race much I take it…

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by tomtriad

The unwritten rule in Colregs is THOU SHALT NOT COLLIDE. Even the priviledged stand on vessel is required to avoid a collision, racing or not.

When in doubt, avoid!

It is not unwritten, it is written cleary in Rule 17(b):

(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and
speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of
the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to
avoid collision.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I've always hated the use of 'privileged' and 'burdened' when describing the rules. How is the stand-on vessel "privileged"? I would say the stand-on vessel has more of a burden than the give-way vessel.

The rules don't use privileged or burdened, and I agree, neither is privileged, as both have a responsibility to uphold. At least in Colregs...

In racing rules, the term "Right of Way" *is* used, and they mean it. Under Racing rules, the Right of Way vessel is free to turn towards a "Keep Clear" vessel, and the Keep clear vessel is obligated to avoid. It is commonly used to force a keep clear vessel to tack or luff by heading toward a collision and forcing them to avoid. Very commonly, if two boats are side by side, the downwind boat which has right of way can turn toward the upwind boat, and force them to head up and luff, or tack.

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by gordonhinds

My understanding is colreg only kicks in from sundown to sunrise.

Congratulations - you win the forum for the day!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Apparently they're barely moving, so not really a big deal, no?



Honestly I'd love to see a video of a boat passing half a boat length in front of another.

Next year in July I’ll have plenty of examples

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by gordonhinds

In ocean racing that is the case. Racing rules cover off the basics during the day. But at night Coreg takes over from the si. Yacht racing rules are more complex especially around rights. Coreg is more about preventing collisions. If you have knowledge otherwise please share.

Yes but COLRegs has the force of law , hence they are universally applicable. Racing rules are rules by “agreement “ and apply to the participants only.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Apparently they're barely moving, so not really a big deal, no?

Honestly I'd love to see a video of a boat passing half a boat length in front of another.

It's so common in our beer can racing (and had generated so many negative comments from the cruiser participants) that the race organizers had to make a special rule:

"Boats in the fast class shall stay at least one boat length clear of the cruising class boats, or suffer disqualification"

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by wingssail

It's so common in our beer can racing

I'd expect close passing in races - Goboatie asserts that it is common practice among the non-racing boaters in the Med, to pass half a boat length in front of other boats out in open water.