WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Unless they're on a closed course, shouldn't racing boats be expected to "chill" when they're give way to another vessel that just happens to be out there?

We can expect all we want and even refuse to accommodate their selfishness but I hope we can understand what motivates them to hold their course when racing. When trying to win a race it is demanded that you use your rights strategically to have the shortest fastest course and so you are trained to take no diversions unless they help you (or hinder someone else).
Having to duck someone not in the race would make me grumpy but I must admit that I wouldn't yell at them.
I remember someone in a different fleet on a shared racecourse yelling at me and it pissed me off for sure so I yelled right back and took my rightful course.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Unless they're on a closed course, shouldn't racing boats be expected to "chill" when they're give way to another vessel that just happens to be out there?

Sure if you are a back of the pack racer you might "chill" a bit and give way, but if you have the lead, you are fighting for the lead, or you are in striking distance of the lead there's usually no "chill" that's going to happen.

Just the fact that you as a none racer might give them "bad air" is enough to get pissed off about for some racers.

Check out these "polite" racers going at each other just in the prestart then consider sailing through as a none racer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1hYEuJWjW8

[thomm225]

These guys are gonna "chill" also right?

NOT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPG89jhmZCE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8I9Imb4B4E

[Lodesman]

We were coming up the Yellow Bank, and slowly being overtaken by another vessel. As he was alongside, after exchanging polite waves, he announced:
"Looks like I'm winning."
Me: "Didn't realize we were racing."
He: "It's always a race."

And that's the reality. Even a boat all alone is racing - trying to eke out another half knot, trying to reach port before dark, trying to get back before happy hour ends, etc. etc.

It's more than a little egotistical for a racer to assume the other boat isn't also "racing". A racer will have to avoid crab floats, logs, or other floating impediments - it's always a risk, and one has to suck it up. No different than needing to give way to another vessel. Suck it up.

[wholybee]

Racers sail by the "Racing Rules of Sailing" which are somewhat different than Colregs. As cruisers, we needn't know the differences, as within their rules they MUST comply with Colregs when crossing a vessel that is not racing. If they cause a stand on vessel to alter course to avoid collision, they are assessed a penalty. Therefore, even if you think it is polite to give way, you really should only do that when you are the give way vessel. And a racer most certainly should not expect you to give way because they are racing. Racers will as strategy use this to gain position. That is, a stand on racing boat will stay in the way of a give way vessel, forcing them into a "bad" situation with another boat where they need to tack and lose position. It's all part of racing. Just because you are a cruising boat, and they a race boat, follow the rules, the fleet and race committee expect it of you.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

And that's the reality. Even a boat all alone is racing - trying to eke out another half knot, trying to reach port before dark, trying to get back before happy hour ends, etc. etc.

that's BS. you think I am out there trying to beat the clock? wrong. I'm out there enjoying a sail. I have happy hour onboard. has nothing to do with racing or sucking it up

[Benz]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Wow Benz, Such hate. You must have gotten really burned when you tried it.

Sure racing is unnessary. So is baseball. But racers generally are not idiots. Nobody I know would make the hail which OP heard. Some dumb crew member maybe or an idiot skipper (there are some of them, and some idiot cruisers too I would guess) but not the people in racing that I know. If you decide that because of that all racers are idiots then it's on you bud.

So let's get it straight: Racing boats are required to give way to non-racing boats according to Colregs and they know it. When we are racing on port tack any boat on starboard tack is an obstacle and we have to figure out how best to avoid them without getting into a dangerous situation and hopefully without losing ground. We don't get angry, we don't shout, we just figure out how to best get past him.

And if I am not racing I try not to mess with race boats but some people are oblivious, or for whatever reason, they continue on their way into the path of a racing boat. It's OK. It's their right. Live and let live. There is no reason for either side to get angry.

As for interfering with commercial vessels, in traffic zones or otherwise, I think that all racing organizations have strict rules forbidding that. Nobody should do it and when they do the commercial vessels have every right and often do report the sailboat to the race organizations. In the US races have to be permitted by the USCG and the notice of the event is published to the commercial vessels. If some sailboat violates that the commercial vessel can report it to the race organization and the racing sailboat will be disqualified, sometimes banned.

But cruisers with a "thing" for racing sometimes may view a normal traffic situation as "playing tag" and think it was dangerous. Maybe it wasn't as bad as it looked. Did the commercial traffic sound a horn?

Anyhow, chill.

There is no hate, only perspective. You speak as though all racers acted always as you claim to do yourself. But they don't, and in the OP's case, they had the effrontery to yell. I have heard that same yell myself. Sure, most racers I've sailed among DO know the rules and follow them, but those who expect special privileges "because they're racing," and they do exist in spite of your claims otherwise, are self-absorbed idiots who make the waters unsafe.
I live and sail in one of the busiest racing areas of the world, and many of my friends and customers are racers. Most are decent people and good sailors, but there's a percentage that are jerks, and those are the ones under discussion here.
So take a chill pill yourself, and don't try to pretend like there aren't bad apples among the racing crowd, and that they don't need to be dealt with by all the other boaters out there who are all bound by the same rules.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by gonesail

that's BS. you think I am out there trying to beat the clock? wrong. I'm out there enjoying a sail. I have happy hour onboard. has nothing to do with racing or sucking it up

Really?!?
You don't tune your sails? You don't try to balance your course to maximize your SMG? You don't plan your tacks to make the most efficient advance to windward?
You're the only one, then.

[Galumay]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Really?!?
.....
You're the only one, then.

No, there is at least two of us!

[Rumrace]

OP what the fella meant to say was. , “ I’m dead last in a race with out a clue. I hope you’ll accept (we’re racin” as a form of apology so I can save face with my guests who think I’m a yachtman”

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Galumay

No, there is at least two of us!

You have a sailboat - do you not use the sails? If you hoist the sails, do you not try to sail well? Be honest.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You have a sailboat - do you not use the sails? If you hoist the sails, do you not try to sail well? Be honest.

I agree fully Lodesman, I find that most people who are sailors find lots of joy in learning and implementing good sail trim. Some take a bit of time to get over the idea that it is beyond them to learn since it is a mad blend of art and science and mostly not well explained.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Adelie

My understanding is that how violations are treated depends on the jurisdiction. In Europe they occasionally sanction vessels that misbehave but aren’t involved in a collision, Germany especially.

In the US I don’t think there is as much interest in enforcement like a traffic cop unless there is a collision or there are repeated problems. That’s why the sponsoring YC should be contacted, they police their own so the USCG doesn’t step in and start dictating areas that racers can’t go.

I forget how long ago (decades) that the USCG sat down with the sailing clubs about race boats cutting it close to shipping in Puget Sound. I believe this rule found in one of the sailing instructions now was the result. Non compliance can result in a DSQ -

14.9 In addition to the requirements of RRS Part 2 preamble,
a boat may not impede the passage, cross ahead within
¾ nautical miles, or continue to approach within ¼
nautical miles (approximately 1500 feet) to the side of a
commercial or government vessel over 30 meters in
length (including tug and tow) either following a traffic
lane or traveling over 15 knots. Boats must follow
instruction from the race committee to alter course to
avoid vessels based on the race committee’s
interpretation of these requirements.

[gonesail]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Really?!?
You don't tune your sails? You don't try to balance your course to maximize your SMG? You don't plan your tacks to make the most efficient advance to windward?
You're the only one, then.

so if I tune my sails I'm racing? that is an absurd statement

[bensolomon]

Giving way, early and broadly to show intent is how I skipper my vessel. Takes pressure off of everyone. The only time I get concerned is if I am the stand on vessel, and give way too soon, I may confuse the other skipper who knows the rules. So, for me, there is a sort of push and pull between being courteous (which is where I try to error) versus confusing the other boat.