WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by gonesail

so if I tune my sails I'm racing? that is an absurd statement

Are you trying hard to be obtuse, or does it come naturally?
Why don't you go back and try to understand the whole meaning of what I wrote, rather than picking out one or two words as the sum of that. Anyone who has canvas up, is usually trying to get the best performance they can manage - whether it's a billion-dollar professional racing tri, or a mangey old dinghy; whether they're going no-where in particular, or are trying to make a destination or a deadline. Their motivations for taking their particular tack are theirs alone, and someone else (a racer for example) cannot assume that the first person's course is less important than theirs, simply because they're racing. There are any number of reasons for a stand-on vessel to maintain their best course to their objective, that have a greater validity/priority than a racing skipper's desire to win a game. Fortunately we do have a method to establish who should get out of the way of whom - it's called the Colregs. My aim is to educate those who don't understand that racing doesn't trump Colregs.

[Joli]

We learned a long time ago to be mindful of those around you when racing. There are some sailors we're comfortable being half a boat length apart, sailing upwind, with their rig over our boat. There are others we avoid for many reasons, we don't know them, inexperience, poor sportsmanship, erratic behavior and a general ass hat~ness. We put other sailors out and about cruising in the "we don't know them" category, we try to avoid them because we don't know what they're going to do. Sometimes we sail close to boats not racing, within a boat length, which isn't close when racing but can be intimidating to non racers. We really try to avoid that.

Any way, yelling "I'm racing" isn't helpful. Actually yelling on any boat isn't helpful, if there is yelling it means "you" as the skipper didn't do your job training and instructing your crew.

[thomm225]

I think if everyone that sails had raced in the past there wouldn't be a problem with just letting the racers do their thing.

Many racers are so involved in the race there is little room for anything else especially if racing one design.

Your boat is perfectly trimmed out and setup for the conditions yet another boat is moving ahead.

This is a problem and Skippers and crew will usually be working like mad to figure out what the problem is.....

Nice pre-race and race of one design monohulls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32_OqjrhVf4

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

One thing to note: racers are comfortable with much closer passing than most non-racers, and have (usually) the skills to get away with it without contact. They do it all the time with other racing vessels, but to the hapless cruiser it looks like a collision is sure to happen. It may just scare the crap out of them, but also it may cause a frightened skipper to do some unexpected maneuver and in fact CAUSE a collision.

I suspect that such events are the root of a lot of the animosity between racers and non-racers on the water.

Jim

Key word "usually". I've seen them get much closer and not get away with it. On smaller slow boats usually just some bend stantions and a lot of yelling but no reason to pull another boat that doesn't want to play that game in.

Whole heartedly agree that this along with yelling is the result of a lot of animosity.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Really?!?
You don't tune your sails? You don't try to balance your course to maximize your SMG? You don't plan your tacks to make the most efficient advance to windward?
You're the only one, then.

I certainly don't try to force an advantageous position over another boat to force them into a less desirable position (a huge part of racing and source of much of the anger towards racers). Generally prefer they simply maintain a decent distance away so we can enjoy our day on the water without the pressure.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by pete c

I see a number of comments about how the racer should have hailed me on VHF.

Kinda hard, when the other guy doesn't have his radio on.

Is this a faux pas?

As part of maintaining a proper watch, you are supposed to use all the tools reasonably available to you.

So unless you have a darn reason why the radio off, yes, you are in the wrong for not monitoring the radio.

As far as the folks suggesting it's too hard for a fully crewed race boat to make a quick call when they are a few minutes out from a potential collision, they have no business on the water if they can't make a reasonable attempt. It might not always work but doesn't justify running down a cruiser because you didn't bother to try.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by wingssail

If you imagine the following situation:

Someone, usually a sail trimmer, says to skipper, "Looks like we're on a collision course."

Skipper answers, "Here take the radio and call him."

Crew, "Call him what, what do I say?"

Skipper, "Oh never mind, give me the radio back."

I can imagine a completely incompetent skipper with incompetent crew doing this. Waiting until say a minute or so before the potential collision, playing the keystone cops on a boat and then throwing up their hands that it didn't work out well is incompetence.

Any remotely competent skipper in control should have no problem making a quick VHF call and they should be doing it a few minutes out, so if this exchange takes 30 seconds, there is time for the captain to grab the radio back and make the call themselves. By doing it a few minutes out (longer is better), you allow the cruising boat to make a small course correction to stay clear with a minimal impact on the cruising boat...everyone wins.

[thomm225]

Good example of close up sailing for racers.

Pre-race start line jockeying for position then the race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSIGjf1Exkg

[marcjsmith]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

We were coming up the Yellow Bank, and slowly being overtaken by another vessel. As he was alongside, after exchanging polite waves, he announced:
"Looks like I'm winning."
Me: "Didn't realize we were racing."
He: "It's always a race."

Me: how did you you ascertain that we were racing?
HE: You blinked...

[SVNeko]

As a long time cruiser, who is now mostly racing, I have seen all the attitudes reflected in this thread out on the water. There are all kinds out there. Whether cruising or racing, it's something we do for fun. Let's try to keep it that way.

[Leighpilot]

That’s not true.

Rule 17 :1 requires the stand on vessel to maintain its course and speed.

Rule 17:2 ALLOWS the stand on vessel to take avoiding action once it becomes apparent that the give way vessel is not taking avoiding avoiding action

And Rule 17:2b REQUIRES the stand on vessel to take action to avoid collision once the vessels are so close that action by the give way vessel would not be sufficient to avoid collision.

So yeah , one can be a privileged vessel right up until action by the give way vessel would not be sufficient to avoid collision at which point the stand on vessel must take action.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I certainly don't try to force an advantageous position over another boat to force them into a less desirable position (a huge part of racing and source of much of the anger towards racers). Generally prefer they simply maintain a decent distance away so we can enjoy our day on the water without the pressure.

You're not really racing if you don't close the door on competitors when the opportunity arises.

[danstanford]

Originally Posted by Joli

You're not really racing if you don't close the door on competitors when the opportunity arises.

Absolutely, it is defense like defense in any other sport. Certainly it can be taken to an extreme like anything else but so can generalizing to lump all racers or cruisers together like a homogenous good or bad group.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Joli

You're not really racing if you don't close the door on competitors when the opportunity arises.

Ummm...that's the point. Much of racing is built around aggressively applying right of way. I said I'm not racing. A certain poster is claiming it's OK because they decided everyone is racing.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Good example of close up sailing for racers.

Pre-race start line jockeying for position then the race

And that's relevant to a cruiser how?

Not my problem if they want to be idiots with each other.