WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[captainmarknc]

I take it you were sailing between Welch's Point and Charles Island. I used to race there myself - back in the day. And some of those Thursday night racers can get pretty serious.

But if you really want to see some serious close call boating, try pulling into Annapolis sometime. Those sailors seem like they are on a suicide mission. Sheesh!

If I see a race going on, I try to steer if possible. Sometimes it's not.

[thomm225]

Sometimes racers have to be aggressive to win so expecting them to suddenly chill out for a day sailor might be asking too much.

This is Australia vs New Zealand 1995 America's Cup.

New Zealand is unbeaten in maybe 20 races or so.

But when Australia get the lead at the start...........they go aggressively at New Zealand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1pyj2jRek4

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You have a sailboat - do you not use the sails? If you hoist the sails, do you not try to sail well? Be honest.

Lodesman, there are quite a lot of people who operate sailboats with little regard for or interest in trying to sail well, or even consistently hoisting sails. They say things like, "too much faffing around, good enough is good enough, etc etc.

We see them more often than we see boats sailing well (outside of racing, that it).

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Lodesman, there are quite a lot of people who operate sailboats with little regard for or interest in trying to sail well, or even consistently hoisting sails. They say things like, "too much faffing around, good enough is good enough, etc etc.

We see them more often than we see boats sailing well (outside of racing, that it).

I'm not sure where you sail, but that doesn't match with my experience. There's a difference between 'able to sail well' and 'want to sail well.' The people that don't want to sail - don't. They motor. If anyone goes through the effort of hoisting the sails, then there's some desire to be propelled by those sails. Whether they have the skill or talent to do that well is a matter of perspective. I've never met anyone, who wanting to be propelled by the sails, does not try to do better than barely moving.

[wingssail]

When a 1/4 mile apart, a simple, "hey there vessel XYZ, any chance I could have you bear off 20 deg. I realize, under normal circumstances I should but I'm racing and it would help me out not having to."

Originally Posted by svfinlandia

To my way of thinking, that is the best answer so far!

Al, S/V Finlandia

Nope, on most race boats nobody is going to do that. They are going to watch the situation develop and make a move when it is closer. They are concentrating on sailing the boat, not interested in having long radio conversations.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I don't like the aggressive jerk racers...unfortunately, they make up a sizeable percentage or racers...just look at the folks trying to defend the aggressive behavior on this thread.

You are wrong about this valhalla360, and the fact that you think that a racer who holds his course and comes close to a non racer is doing it to intimidate the non racer shows that you know little about what's going on in the mind of the racer.

He holds his course because he is going the way he wants to go in the race and he is not concerned about being close to someone, in fact doesn't probably even understand that the non-race is going to be scared about it. Why should he be?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If I meet a single boat on open waters well away from anyone else and you feel the need to run a collision course until the last second...you are purposely instigating. That would mean you likely had 10-15min to figure out my course and try and contact me via VHF if you thought it may be an issue. You are therefore simply a jerk.

Please clarify if you think I missed your point because you didn't appear to make it very well.

Well, Vahalla360, you're missing the point that the racer isn't going to make a course change 1/4 a mile ahead of time because he knows that there is a good chance that the situation is still fluid. There is plenty of time to do it with a slight change much later in the game. After all, he is already on the course which he thinks is best for his race, why should he change that if he doesn't need to? And honestly, it isn't personal. The racer has a lot better things to do than think about trying to intimidate some poor cruiser.

If he is going perfectly well on port tack, fast and right on the course he wants, you want him to make a change to a less advantageous course, or tack, just to give you a comfortable feeling. That makes you the jerk in my opinion. Relax, hold your course, he'll miss you, and forget the radio, it's not needed.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think the problem is far too many racers take that aggression out on cruisers because they have decided "all sailors are secretly racing", hence a lot of people not happy with racers. They often say it as a joke but from what I've seen, many really believe it.

Think of it akin to someone drag racing on the street in front of your house and then getting mad at you when you tool along at the 30mph speed limit. Sure drag racing is very aggressive and at the track on a closed course, fine but in no way justifies their behavior when out with people not racing.

That is rampant paranoia.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by GBR134

Hmm - you are completely right of course but your unflattering description of all racers doesn’t encourage me to like you.

I'm sure you would like me if you met me--I'm far more winsome in person.

[gordonhinds]

Its pretty simple. Starboard has right of way over port tack, windward each has to keep clear of leeward yacht if on the same tack. Overtaking boat keeps clear. 'Racing' is not part of the rules of racing. You can protest a yacht that is racing even if you are not. On a port and starboard incident (take a pic) they will be disqualified. If they abuse you, you can also protest them under the fair sailing provision (Rule 2) and Rule 69. It is rarely done but extremely effective. Get their sail number and find out what club they are sailing with (not hard to do). They will never do it again.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by svfinlandia

To my way of thinking, that is the best answer so far!

Al, S/V Finlandia

Indeed. Courtesy given is usually courtesy earned. If you have a reason and you ask me politely on the radio, sure, I can usually give you a couple of spokes. Acting entitled will usually irritate me at least a little. I usually don't act or talk nice, nor do favors, for people who irritate me. I am pretty sure a lot of other folks are the same way.

[Buzzman]

Years ago I was crossing Sydney Harbour on a large passenger ferry, doing probably 12kts.
The 18-fters were out that day and their furthest mark meant they had to cross the ferry's path.
One crew were blinded by the sails, and being hung out on the far side on trapezes, probably did not see the ferry come into their 'collision course path'.
What happened next was amazing!
The ferry captain sounded his horn twice - two longs - which I thknk means watch out or else.
Immediately the horn sounded the 18-fter turned on its daggar board and was off on a 90 deg course away from the ferry.
Literally it was a two second roll turn by the dinghy crew.
The helm waved to the ferry an apologetic 'sorry' wave and kept on flat out down harbour.
They were probably doing 16kts on a beam reach in a fresh sou-easter.
All the passengers applauded.
Very skilful sailors.
Apparently this 'close call' happens fairly often during the sailing season on Sydney Harbour..!

[OneBoatman]

You are the stand on vessel, and while it is a shame you didn't identify them as sailors in the heat of race where I'm sure you would have stayed clear, that doesn't excuse a racer from operating to COLREG standards. As a racer whose course is in front of Milford harbor particularly inside Charles Island one should be on the lookout for cruising sailboats nearby which may create close crossing situations. Sailing fast is sailing smart and it is best to plan your tactics to have clear air so as not to have to request privilege verbally at the last minute. No need to reply "WE'RE SAILING" because the racer it seems was quite aware of that. What if it was too late to bear off and pass behind and your helmsperson accidentally tried to give way by tacking underneath onto port but forced him up yet managed to save the racer an extra tack? Had both vessels beared off at the last minute that wouldn't be good either. What someones crew may yell at you may not be in concert with what either helmsperson is thinking. It's racing and its sailing, un-intentional conflct arises. Oh well.

[goboatingnow]

I raced a lot at one stage ( Beneteau First 21) and the start line often had other non racers passing through

In my experience most cruisers will extend a courtesy to racers and in some cases we would explain our closer then usual approach by saying “ we’re racing “. One did not expect anything but we were always extended route courtesy by other non racers.

No need for advance COLRegs lessons. Just people being reasonable

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Joli

Interesting. I wouldn't alter course to follow but wouldn't worry about a close crossing. How close is to close for you?

It depends on what else is around (traffic, obstructions, etc.), speed, maneuverability of the boats in question, and the crossing in question. If it's clear you're crossing my stern, or you're overtaking on a parallel course, a few hundred feet is close, but tolerable. If you're crossing my bow in open water with lots of room to adjust course, I'd consider anything within a 1/4 mile to be needlessly close.