Whistle, gong, bell, or aerosol can of refrigerant?

[Adelie]

I have a mouth horn, one of the pump up horns and I’m going to mount a 12v horn just above the hounds on my mast.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s a good question Jim. My reading of the colregs is that a bell can meet the requirements for a "Sound Producing Device”. Not all bells do, but mine does (even came with a fancy certification stamp ).

Dunno, Mike, I don't think so. In the regs quoted just above they seem to separate bells from "sound producing devices". It's kinda hard to equate a bell with five short blasts from a horn.

Bells have at least one specific usage... sounding when anchored in fog. But I have never heard one in use for this purpose. I've carried a bell for years, but never used it for anything other than showing CG folks when boarded years ago... ohh... Ann polishes it now and then!

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Dunno, Mike, I don't think so. In the regs quoted just above they seem to separate bells from "sound producing devices". It's kinda hard to equate a bell with five short blasts from a horn.

Bells have at least one specific usage... sounding when anchored in fog. But I have never heard one in use for this purpose. I've carried a bell for years, but never used it for anything other than showing CG folks when boarded years ago... ohh... Ann polishes it now and then!

Jim

Five short clangs. Pretty easy to do.

You could be right. I think the wording is ambiguous, although I bet there is a clear ruling somewhere in the jurisprudence. I haven’t gone looking.

I’ve never had any water police question the bell, but I haven’t had much interaction with authorities period. We must look pretty harmless, since we almost always get bypassed .

[JPA Cate]

Jim did not mention, but we have a mouth horn. It has two different types of blast it makes: a sound sort of like I imagine a tortured moose might make, which is of short duration, starts low, ends with a sharp high pitch; and a long, low pitched blast, of much longer duration. I have actually used it to make the 3 blasts, engines in reverse signal. I could see people trying to figure out where the sound was coming from at a goodly distance, but not really sure if it is within regulations. However, when a child, the boy next door taught me to made a formidable whistle, without fingers, so I can whistle quite loudly, and find that is good for getting responses from people who are below decks on their boats. Undoubted not "legal", and yet, a good attention-getter.

Jammer, it depends on how interested one is in obeying the spirit of the law. As Snore mentioned, "recognized signals" are useless if the hearer doesn't know what they mean. In some cases, you would be better off to have VHF conversation to confirm and upcoming course change from a tug with a tow than just, "I am directing my course to starboard, or to port." You need to know them, but it is foolish to expect total strangers to know what they mean. They may have known them 20 years ago, and not remember, etc., etc.

Ann

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Five short clangs. Pretty easy to do.



You could be right. I think the wording is ambiguous, although I bet there is a clear ruling somewhere in the jurisprudence. I haven’t gone looking.



I’ve never had any water police question the bell, but I haven’t had much interaction with authorities period. We must look pretty harmless, since we almost always get bypassed .

I’m with Jim on the bells. Could you clarify a “short clang”. Unless your mate is Quasimodo and he is ringing the bells of Notre Dame, aren’t all clangs the same????

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Snore

I’m with Jim on the bells. Could you clarify a “short clang”. Unless your mate is Quasimodo and he is ringing the bells of Notre Dame, aren’t all clangs the same????

Not sure why this is a challenge. Five smacks with the clangy thing (what’s it called?). Last one gets muffled with the hand to keep it short. Seems simple.

But I’m not trying to defend or argue this is the best way. It’s a sounding device which, I believe, fits within the regs. But I’ve been wrong before.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Jammer, it depends on how interested one is in obeying the spirit of the law. As Snore mentioned, "recognized signals" are useless if the hearer doesn't know what they mean. In some cases, you would be better off to have VHF conversation to confirm and upcoming course change from a tug with a tow than just, "I am directing my course to starboard, or to port." You need to know them, but it is foolish to expect total strangers to know what they mean. They may have known them 20 years ago, and not remember, etc., etc.

Ordinarily I use the VHF and find that the barge captains are fond of saying "one whistle" rather than "red to red." The bridges here all have radios, and curiously are most likely to be found on 16, which I understand is not usual practice anywhere else.

[Uricanejack]

Actually the Bell is an official sound signaling device you should have according to the international regs.
So is a gong if your vessel is quite a bit longer than mine.
However the bell is absolutely not supposed to be used instead of a horn or whistle.

The Bell is the sound signal for a vessel at anchor. Or aground.
So ringing the bell when underway, or underway making way in fog is completely wrong, confusing to another vessel and worse than not sounding your whistle.

When you clang or ring your bell you are signaling to any other vessel you are a vessel at anchor.


PS I carry the usual air horn in a plastic packet which hasn’t been opened and probably never will be. JIK someone asks if I have a leagal sound signaling device.

I also have a funny wee brass trumpet you can blow on. And of course the whistle which might sound like a MOB in the water.
If I blew three prolonged blasts on it.

A proper fitted horn would be better.

Do I ever use sound signals. Well not quite as frequently as I should. But yes occasionally I do.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

Actually the Bell is an official sound signaling device you should have according to the international regs.
So is a gong if your vessel is quite a bit longer than mine.
However the bell is absolutely not supposed to be used instead of a horn or whistle.

The Bell is the sound signal for a vessel at anchor. Or aground.
So ringing the bell when underway, or underway making way in fog is completely wrong, confusing to another vessel and worse than not sounding your whistle.

When you clang or ring your bell you are signaling to any other vessel you are a vessel at anchor.


PS I carry the usual air horn in a plastic packet which hasn’t been opened and probably never will be. JIK someone asks if I have a leagal sound signaling device.

I also have a funny wee brass trumpet you can blow on. And of course the whistle which might sound like a MOB in the water.
If I blew three prolonged blasts on it.

A proper fitted horn would be better.

Do I ever use sound signals. Well not quite as frequently as I should. But yes occasionally I do.

Bells are only required on vessels 20m and longer. Whistles are only required on vessels 12m and longer.

Less than 12m “shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient signal.” A bell would qualify as an efficient sound making appliance but has the potential to cause confusion. Still, meets requirements.

If you don’t have a bell, but have a horn/whistle and are anchored what signal should you make? I would argue for Short-Long-Short in keeping with rule 36g.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=NavRulesAmalgamated#rule32%20$%2033

[Mike OReilly]

From Transport Canada colregs:

Equipment for Sound Signals — International

(a) A vessel of 12 metres or more in length shall be provided with a whistle, a vessel of 20 metres or more in length shall be provided with a bell in addition to a whistle, and a vessel of 100 metres or more in length shall, in addition, be provided with a gong, the tone and sound of which cannot be confused with that of the bell. The whistle, bell and gong shall comply with the specification in Annex III to these Regulations. The bell or gong or both may be replaced by other equipment having the same respective sound characteristics, provided that manual sounding of the prescribed signals shall always be possible.

(b) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length shall not be obliged to carry the sound signalling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient sound signal.

My vessel is less than 12 metres (39 feet). My “efficient sound signal” is a bell.

The regs specify the use of a bell at anchor in fog or aground. I cannot find where it states this is the ONLY time a bell is to be used as an “efficient sound signal.” It further specifies the pattern of sounding, which is different than others.

Further along it states: "A vessel of 12 metres or more but less than 20 metres in length shall not be obliged to give the bell signals prescribed in paragraphs (g) and (h) of this Rule. However, if she does not, she shall make some other efficient sound signal at intervals of not more than 2 minutes."

[JPA Cate]

This is only an example that came from one Boxing Day, when we were headed to Auckland from Bay of Islands. No one had come north on Christmas day, due to respect for weather being a bit nasty that year. What we found, when we left was thick fog, and we proceeded with our injured moose horn, used instead at the rate of one hoot per minute, the same as we used in the San Francisco Bay Area.

What we encountered were batches of northbound boats tucked in astern of a lead motor boat with radar, universally making no sound signals whatsoever. We moved about 5 n. mi. east of the northbound vessels' route, and encountered no one else that far off the points.

*1 &*2 There is no particular reason to assume a foreign nation will use US regulations, which vary from State to State; but there does seem to be an innate tendency to plot waypoints for routes really close to headlands, especially so when they require course changes. Such travellers are pretty easy to avoid.

*3 Remember it is the duty of the skipper to see to the welfare and crew.

Ann

[Uricanejack]

You just quoted the exact wording of the rule.

The Bell is for sounding a fog signal at anchor which can’t be confused with a fog signal for a vessel underway.
You are exempt from the requirement to carry a bell. If you make another efficient noise.
Under 12 m you do not require a whistle. You must have another efficient noise maker.

A bell is not an efficient signal instead of a whistle. It’s a specific signal in its own right. With its own meaning and purpose.

The coaches whistle is ok as another efficient sound signaling device. The Bell is not. The Bell is a sound signaling device for a specific purpose. Using the bell instead of a whistle is likley to be confused and your vessel thought to be a vessel at anchor. And treated as a vessel at anchor.

What do you think I will do on my vessel in fog when I hear a whistle?

What do you think I will do on my vessel when I hear a bell?

The answere is diffrent.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

You just quoted the exact wording of the rule.

The Bell is for sounding a fog signal at anchor which can’t be confused with a fog signal for a vessel underway.
You are exempt from the requirement to carry a bell. If you make another efficient noise.
Under 12 m you do not require a whistle. You must have another efficient noise maker.

A bell is not an efficient signal instead of a whistle. It’s a specific signal in its own right. With its own meaning and purpose.

The coaches whistle is ok as another efficient sound signaling device. The Bell is not. The Bell is a sound signaling device for a specific purpose. Using the bell instead of a whistle is likley to be confused and your vessel thought to be a vessel at anchor. And treated as a vessel at anchor.

What do you think I will do on my vessel in fog when I hear a whistle?

What do you think I will do on my vessel when I hear a bell?

The answere is diffrent.

Please link to an official colregs site which includes your definitions. Or perhaps the set of rulings. I can’t find them.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Bells are only required on vessels 20m and longer. Whistles are only required on vessels 12m and longer.

Less than 12m “shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient signal.” A bell would qualify as an efficient sound making appliance but has the potential to cause confusion. Still, meets requirements.

If you don’t have a bell, but have a horn/whistle and are anchored what signal should you make? I would argue for Short-Long-Short in keeping with rule 36g.

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=NavRulesAmalgamated#rule32%20$%2033

You are right about the vessel lengths and exemptions. Bells and whistles are not required by small vessels under 20 and 12m

The Bell meets a requirement for vessels which require a Bell. It is a specific sound signal with a specific meaning. Which means it cannot be efficient as a different sound signal.

Your suggestion of short long short is a good suggestion because it is a signal which has no other meaning. Morse R has no significant meaning. it cannot be confused with another sound signal with a meaning.
All the other Morse letters have a single meaning.

One which might be used. Is used by rigs. Short short long. Morse U. Has the “meaning you are running into danger” your R is better.

On my boat if I was at anchor. I would bang a pot. Or a frying pan. In reply to hearing a fog signal. Or play thunderstruck or the Ace Of Spades on my CD payer through my cockpit speakers.

Unless it was a bell I heard. Which I would think was another anchored vessel.

[Gene Neill]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Five smacks with the clangy thing (what’s it called?)

Clapper.