Who is a 'bluewater skipper'? What is 'bluewater preparation'?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
So here’s the thing: we all know what a blue water boat is after that other thread… a blue water boat might take a sailor across an ocean… but a blue water sailor can take any boat across that ocean

fixed that for you

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

fixed that for you

Actually "can" is the proper use here.

If you accept that such a thing as a "bluewater boat" exists, then you don't start out with the possibility that it might not be able to cross an ocean, because then it is not a "bluewater boat."

The boat has the capability to take you across an ocean, if prepared and handled in the proper way by the skipper. Or if the unprepared skipper lucks out. Ergo, Jedi has the force with him; the skipper "might" make it. The boat "can." [NOTE: Neither sentence implies that either always will make it.]

Hey, I was a linguist and an editor for decades. I'm still in recovery.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Yes, the genesis of this thread was that one, and I'm getting the idea from many posts, especially your detailed one.

Definitely Boatman has described crossing oceans in a Beneteau 323, a boat I wouldn't take from Boston to Provincetown (50 nm.)
Ergo he is a 'bluewater sailor' and I am a self-described-happy-to-be coastal slacker.

Though I'd love to be on a Beneteau 323 when Boatman is the skipper and I watch him do it. But I'm afraid for that to happen, I have to buy one and hire him.

EDIT: Tossing in the grin emoji

Boatman and me actually met a couple of times and I remember how familiar his ways were and I realized it’s because we’re of the same kind difference is he does the shitty passages for a job and I somehow end up doing them of my own free will haha

But here’s how it works: it just comes with the years spent at sea, you keep pushing to the next level… sometimes willingly, often forced by unexpected bad weather etc. When that happens things are tense for a bit and then 30 minutes later you realize that you can handle it. Do that long enough and you look at a potentially tough passage like “it can’t be as bad as that one we did a couple years ago” and you just get it over with

Second difference is that Boatie can’t really choose the boat: he’s got to do it with whatever he gets to work with, while I have a boat that is so easy to sail off shore, it’s like she takes the crew for a ride

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Hey, I was a linguist and an editor for decades. I'm still in recovery.

Ah really! My major in college as well! (I was half my graduating class! ) I never quite figured out how to make a living at it, but I sure loved it!

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Boatman and me actually met a couple of times and I remember how familiar his ways were and I realized it’s because we’re of the same kind difference is he does the shitty passages for a job and I somehow end up doing them of my own free will haha

But here’s how it works: it just comes with the years spent at sea, you keep pushing to the next level… sometimes willingly, often forced by unexpected bad weather etc. When that happens things are tense for a bit and then 30 minutes later you realize that you can handle it. Do that long enough and you look at a potentially tough passage like “it can’t be as bad as that one we did a couple years ago” and you just get it over with

Second difference is that Boatie can’t really choose the boat: he’s got to do it with whatever he gets to work with, while I have a boat that is so easy to sail off shore, it’s like she takes the crew for a ride

Yeah, a boat your size, you're halfway there the moment you cast off!!

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Ah really! My major in college as well! (I was half my graduating class! ) I never quite figured out how to make a living at it, but I sure loved it!

Ah, great!

Yeah, I went for a ph.d. in it. Oh, it doesn't earn you dollars, but if you like to annoy people, it is fabulous. I annoy everyone professionally! And since my speciality was the psychology of second-language-learning, I can annoy in several languages!!

Pray we never meet in your cockpit, me with a few margaritas in me, and we you do, under no circumstances should you bring up proto-Indo-European etymology!!

[Sonny36]

How about this: A bluewater skipper is one who who crosses oceans or seas by sail or power, with all the preparation and skills that are required.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Sonny36

How about this: A bluewater skipper is one who who crosses oceans or seas by sail or power, with all the preparation and skills that are required.

So many pixels could've been spared, had you but spoken up in post #2

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Sonny36

How about this: A bluewater skipper is one who who crosses oceans or seas by sail or power, with all the preparation and skills that are required.

There are a few organizations that log such credentials. Ocean Cruising Club defines membership qualifications as 1000 nm between ports in a boat under 70 feet.

https://oceancruisingclub.org/

Peter (and OCC member)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Boatman and me actually met a couple of times and I remember how familiar his ways were and I realized it’s because we’re of the same kind difference is he does the shitty passages for a job and I somehow end up doing them of my own free will haha

But here’s how it works: it just comes with the years spent at sea, you keep pushing to the next level… sometimes willingly, often forced by unexpected bad weather etc. When that happens things are tense for a bit and then 30 minutes later you realize that you can handle it. Do that long enough and you look at a potentially tough passage like “it can’t be as bad as that one we did a couple years ago” and you just get it over with

Second difference is that Boatie can’t really choose the boat: he’s got to do it with whatever he gets to work with, while I have a boat that is so easy to sail off shore, it’s like she takes the crew for a ride

Ahh yes.. The Tanqueray Incident...

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Pray we never meet in your cockpit, me with a few margaritas in me, and we you do, under no circumstances should you bring up proto-Indo-European etymology!!

Ah, we can have those margaritas... and I'll just bring up Hittite once or twice...

[Auklet]

Oceanographically there’s no definition of “Blue Water.” You basically have Littoral and Oceanic, which in the boater’s vernacular translates to coastal and offshore, respectively. “Blue Water” is not a real place but aligns with offshore in people’s minds. If anything at all, it’s a sales slogan meant to inspire dreams of travel to far destinations where the water is blue and clear, such as near offshore islands, in order to sell yachts to naive buyers. To sell the most yachts (dreams) sales teams hawk all sailboats as “blue-water capable.” People buy ‘em, cross oceans in ‘em, and then proclaim confirmation of the implied capability, etc., which leads to these discussions.

It would be more illuminating to ask what distinguishes an offshore sailor from a coastal one; hence an offshore vessel from a coastal cruiser. I think many people would agree you are “offshore” if more than a day’s (24 hr) run from safe harbor; say 150-200 n.mi. Along many coasts that is seaward of the continental shelf which at its deepest is 200 meters, but along California the shelf break (200 m) is usually less than 100 n.mi. out. An offshore vessel would be one with high endurance; i.e., one capable of remaining at sea for weeks, fully self-sufficient. Many yachts have been shown to possess such endurances with one to few crew. Generally, the larger the yacht the greater its endurance, and those are also generally more seaworthy than small ones. (No need to cite all of the potential exceptions to this basic fact.)

High endurance is related to durability. A sailor and the vessel are not self sufficient if the vessel breaks down and cannot be repaired at sea. High quality construction if maintained is less likely to breakdown in the first place. The best representative of a vessel sailing offshore for a few, to even several, weeks would therefore be a fairly good-sized one of high-quality build. This generally means expensive, relatively.

Therefore, look to the high-end builders such as Swan, Island Packet, Pacific Sea Craft or Amel, among others. And there you find the elusive “Blue Water” boats which few wannabes are able to buy, but who can afford “the dream” as proffered by the yachting industry among lower-quality builds. If you cross an ocean in one, say to Aruba, Azores, Bermuda, New Zealand, or O’ahu you’ve sailed offshore across the blue waters of the ocean. What else can be said? I guess the proof is in the pudding.

Auklet

[MGRodems]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

Not to brag, but I've been a blue water boater my entire life, just about 40 miles north of Detroit. I've enjoyed power boats, sailboats, Windsurfers, swimming, SCUBA diving, and I've even WALKED over the Blue Water Bridge.

It's a great area to visit if you get the chance. Except for the current under the bridge, it's an easy area to sail.
https://www.michigan.org/hot-spots/blue-water-area

Agree. I have done Lake Huron from end to end racing as well as cruising several times. The water is really blue, especially when it is not green or white.

Racing puts you out there and doesn't allow you to wait for a weather window. Crusiing allows you to see more blue.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Auklet

Oceanographically there’s no definition of “Blue Water.” You basically have Littoral and Oceanic, which in the boater’s vernacular translates to coastal and offshore, respectively. “Blue Water” is not a real place but aligns with offshore in people’s minds. If anything at all, it’s a sales slogan meant to inspire dreams of travel to far destinations where the water is blue and clear, such as near offshore islands, in order to sell yachts to naive buyers. To sell the most yachts (dreams) sales teams hawk all sailboats as “blue-water capable.” People buy ‘em, cross oceans in ‘em, and then proclaim confirmation of the implied capability, etc., which leads to these discussions.

It would be more illuminating to ask what distinguishes an offshore sailor from a coastal one; hence an offshore vessel from a coastal cruiser. I think many people would agree you are “offshore” if more than a day’s (24 hr) run from safe harbor; say 150-200 n.mi. Along many coasts that is seaward of the continental shelf which at its deepest is 200 meters, but along California the shelf break (200 m) is usually less than 100 n.mi. out. An offshore vessel would be one with high endurance; i.e., one capable of remaining at sea for weeks, fully self-sufficient. Many yachts have been shown to possess such endurances with one to few crew. Generally, the larger the yacht the greater its endurance, and those are also generally more seaworthy than small ones. (No need to cite all of the potential exceptions to this basic fact.)

High endurance is related to durability. A sailor and the vessel are not self sufficient if the vessel breaks down and cannot be repaired at sea. High quality construction if maintained is less likely to breakdown in the first place. The best representative of a vessel sailing offshore for a few, to even several, weeks would therefore be a fairly good-sized one of high-quality build. This generally means expensive, relatively.

Therefore, look to the high-end builders such as Swan, Island Packet, Pacific Sea Craft or Amel, among others. And there you find the elusive “Blue Water” boats which few wannabes are able to buy, but who can afford “the dream” as proffered by the yachting industry among lower-quality builds. If you cross an ocean in one, say to Aruba, Azores, Bermuda, New Zealand, or O’ahu you’ve sailed offshore across the blue waters of the ocean. What else can be said? I guess the proof is in the pudding.

Auklet

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

This is of course much appreciated, and no doubt very true. However, it was in fact a thread about what is a bluewater sailboat that inspired me to inquire what a bluewater skipper it.

I think what I've definitely ascertained is that these two questions, intertwined like DNA, can spiral on throughout this forum and others until the disintegration of glass-reinforced plastic itself...

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

This is of course much appreciated, and no doubt very true. However, it was in fact a thread about what is a bluewater sailboat that inspired me to inquire what a bluewater skipper it.

I think what I've definitely ascertained is that these two questions, intertwined like DNA, can spiral on throughout this forum and others until the disintegration of glass-reinforced plastic itself...

You are a gentleman, sir!!