Affordable Power?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

The 12V output is limited to 8 (EIGHT) puny little amps.
I ended up mating a Briggs motor to small automotive alternator for long term camping. (or making lots of beer runs into San Filipe to keep the van charged up)

bill that automotive alternator has an internal regulator so the output was safely regulated.
The 12v output on the generator is not regulated to maintain a safe charging voltage. The amperage doesn't matter as long as the voltage is regulated to maintain within a safe voltage for charging the battery.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Hmmm...

Permanent Magnet Alternator Wind Blue Low Wind

I'm just wondering if this can be used for the generator on a hydro electric system? Could use the prop off an outboard for the blade. Or possibly fabricate them from a non corrosive sheet metal. Aluminum might be too thin and unsure about plastic. Could potentially encase it in a pvc tube or simply get pvc sheeting and bend them to specific forms for casing. Basically an attempt to make a homemade W&S system.

Wondering what speed this would kick in at. Says can produce 12v at 6 mile winds or 130rpm.

Also wondering if it's worth going through all this for a hydro electric turbine. Might be less hastle and more cost effective to just buy a wind turbine. I've just heard they're noisy.

1. Yes, that alternator would work in a hydro gen scheme. An outboard prop from a ~6 hp motor would be a good starting point. These are readily available for free or nearly so if you don't mind a nick or two in the blades. Fabricating your own prop would be a foolish waste of time and effort.

2. As mentioned before, until you get up to around 4 knots there isn't much power available, but it rises rapidly after that. Depending upon what boat you end up with, this could be good or not so good...

3. Is it worth it? Looks like you could get this going for less than 300 USD. It might well supply all of your voyaging electrical needs if you end up with a boat that can average 4-5 knots on passage.

4. Wind turbines work at anchor, while the hydro does not. On the other hand, when sailing off the wind (which is what we all strive to do on passage) your apparent wind is reduced enough that wind turbines don't work all that well much of the time. So, you need to think about what you are trying to accomplish: power under way or power at rest. Only you can make that determination.

5. IMO, it is much easier to DiY a hydro than a wind turbine. On your putative budget, DIY should loom large in your planning.

Jim

[Paul Elliott]

Tidjian, on a small boat, electrical energy is a precious resource, and the best way you can manage it is to reduce your consumption. A refrigerator will probably be the heaviest power consumer on your boat, follower by a computer or chartplotter, and then by an autopilot. Do anything you can do to reduce consumption.

Refrigerator? Insulate or do without. It's not so much the power when the cooler is running, but how often it has to run. A "dorm" refrigerator will be running almost continuously. If you can super-insulate then you can cut the run-time by a huge factor. Not having one at all is a big power budget win. My refrigerator uses 5A (12V) when running, and runs about 30% of the time when in the warm tropics. That's 36Ah/day.

Computer or chartplotter? Run as little as possible. On a passage you don't need more than a daily position-fix, and to monitor AIS if you like. One of those VHF/AIS/GPS radios you've been looking at is a great way to save power. You can even turn it off when you're standing watch topsides. Run the computer to get your WX info, and shut it off otherwise. A typical laptop or chartplotter may consume 5A. If you keep it on 24/7 that adds up to 120Ah/day. A low-power system may burn 2A. 24/7, that's 48Ah/day.

Autopilot? Use a windvane or sheet-to-tiller steering when you can. Big power win. A heavy-duty autopilot may average a couple of amps (the peaks are much greater). Say that's 50Ah/day.

Running lights? Replace all incandescent lights with LEDs. Huge power savings. My original incandescent tricolor burned 25W (that's roughly 2A @ 12V, 12 hours per day = 24Ah/day) My LED tricolor consumes less than 2Ah per day.

If you are singlehanding, these will probably be the major consumers. Add up the Ah/day and that's what you have to put into your battery (plus a little more).

*Now* you can figure out how to make that power. With a good controller a 200 Watts of solar panes in the tropics will generate about 60 Ah/day You can see that if you run everything I listed 24/7 you are in big trouble. Using LEDs and running the computer / chartplotter two hours/day and using a windvane gets that consumption down to about 42 Ah/day (this includes the refrigerator). That's doable. But there are cloudy days, so you have to allow for that with bigger batteries, or more charging sources, or less consumption.

It's not really that complicated, but you need to keep your eyes open and be realistic about your power consumption and generation. Look at what the SHTP or TRANSAT racers do. Better yet, since you have a strict budget look at what they *used* to do.

[Tidjian]

For sure Don. I understand. I know it's not going to be like the luxury life of living on land like we're used to over here.

I didn't think of insulating the refrigerator. That's actually quite genius. Could probably run heavy duty foam around the sides then use a spray foam on the back just leaving any air vents open. The door would be the weakest part I suppose. Unless you built it in a cabinet with an insulated opening but that might be too bulky for a ~30' boat. Would an ice box be less of a power consumer? Could always do an ice box with a Coleman arctic cooler (non-electric). They advertise to keep ice frozen up to 5 days.

Thanks for the tips on the hydro gen. I could easily find a prop from a ~6hp outboard. Not an issue. I understand the wiring and everything well enough. My only thought would be how to enclose it nicely. That motor needs to be in a waterproof she'll I imagine. I was thinking maybe using either a pvc tube capped at both ends with a drill hole for the turbine to connect. Or maybe bending pvc or acrylic to fit it more snuggly. I'm not much of an engineer so I also need to figure out how to make the turbine connect to it through the casing without water creeping in. Any silicon I imagine would interfere with its ability to spin.

I think counting on 200W of solar with a controller. I might snag a 400w wind turbine. Then if I built this hydro gen. That gives me three types of energy to rely on and three different situations to be ready for. None of them are heavy or cause any alarm for being brought on board. All can easily be stowed away.

Lastly the Honda gen could be useful for emergency situations or for powering an ice box to make ice. Or in the event something else fails and I need to replenish charge. Is there a particular Honda gen I should adventure for or are any of the smaller units sufficient?

I think I want to convert all lights to LED but most of them to battery operated as Ann suggested. AA led lights have quite a battery life and bringing a 48 pack of batteries shouldn't be an issue. I could keep primary lights like the bow nav light on power but most cabin or side and stern lights battery. Just a thought any ways on taking away lower drain.

As for laptop it won't be running 24/7. I'll likely have a laptop and a tablet which I also use as a kindle for sailing reference books. I don't want to haul 25 heavy books in there so I'll take the essential ones and I have many in ebooks making it less weight. The laptop I have has about a 6 hour battery and that's running videos or something non stop. At most besides checking for weather alerts or maybe sending an email or checking open CPN. It won't be running. Maybe on the off occasion I watch a movie. So it will really just need recharging every couple days I imagine.

What will be running will be the sonar/GPS combo, radar (if I get it), vhf/ais, and AP if I can't find a decent windvane. I'm reiterating if I can find a windvane I absolutely will over an AP. But so far the internet seems scarce for used ones so I'll keep looking or I'll buy the kits and build one myself. I would just feel more comfortable with an Aries or monitor system I know can handle a beating.

[newhaul]

http://www.solopublications.com/sailariq.htm
If you don't do sheet to tiller then build your own wind vane customizing to your chosen vessel
In Memoriam Walt Murray
http://www.faymarine.com/plansite/fa...e_yacht_pl.htm

[thomm225]

Why would you want a noisy, smelly fuel dependent generator when you can have solar?

If my batteries get a bit low being charged by my 60 watt panel while I'm out cruising, I shut off everything except the autopilot and let the batteries charge and I miss a night or two without a fan

My panel is all that charges my batteries. I don't hook up to shore power when I get back to the marina

I have two more 20 watt panels that I have yet to hook up

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

The laptop I have has about a 6 hour battery and that's running videos or something non stop. At most besides checking for weather alerts or maybe sending an email or checking open CPN. It won't be running. Maybe on the off occasion I watch a movie. So it will really just need recharging every couple days I imagine.

This sounds good, but remember that it isn't the "recharging every couple days" that's the issue, but how much power it takes to recharge when you do it. My old laptop took 6A when recharging and it took hours to charge. Many newer laptops use less power than that, but still, on a long voyage you have to put back every watt-hour you use, regardless of how big your batteries are.

So think in Amp hours per day (or Watt hours). Batteries are for riding out the times when you can't be charging. And you have to charge them. Do the math. It's easy, and it's important.

[Tidjian]

Originally Posted by newhaul

A Pearson Ariel Page
If you don't do sheet to tiller then build your own wind vane customizing to your chosen vessel
In Memoriam Walt Murray
Fay Marine vane steering plans

Wow thanks for that! I've been looking everywhere for free design schemes with details. Maybe my internet searching skills are lacking.

I get what you're saying about a/h and I'll try to start planning based on that. I'll be honest a battery bank is new to me as I always just recharge mine at the marina. A lot of this energy planning is new to me so I'll probably be poking around a lot at ideas the next couple months. But I feel like I'm getting a grasp for it.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Tidjian

Wow thanks for that! I've been looking everywhere for free design schemes with details. Maybe my internet searching skills are lacking.

I get what you're saying about a/h and I'll try to start planning based on that. I'll be honest a battery bank is new to me as I always just recharge mine at the marina. A lot of this energy planning is new to me so I'll probably be poking around a lot at ideas the next couple months. But I feel like I'm getting a grasp for it.

no problem I have some really arcane pages bookmarked from way back .
I used to dock next to Walt before he passed.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The 12v output on the generator is not regulated to maintain a safe charging voltage. The amperage doesn't matter

Yes the 12V output off tge genny is pretty useless.

But for both reasons, it is true 8A doesn't get you too far.

The poorly regulated voltage is likely NP for a cheap starter, which is all I think it's designed for, keeping a truck blasting the stereo from getting too flat at a remote building site.