Can you Make Sourdough without Oven

[Sparx]

That turbo broiler looks like an excellent idea. I have never used one, but from a quick look online I am thinking it might bake a nice loaf. I see it as a convection oven with a top heating element.

First my first try with it I would preheat the turbo baker, and drop the dough directly into the unit. Then immediately pour in a little boiling water, and slam the lid on. This would be without using the cast iron dutch oven. I am thinking the overhead heat convection should give a nice crust to the bread. I would aim for 425 F temperature as a first guess, decrease if it gets to brown before the loaf is fully cooked internally. The water addition helps to get a good rise in the first couple minutes of baking.

At home I get excellent results backing loaves inside a dutch oven placed inside a convection oven. So I would not rule out that approach with the turbo broiler either.

Play with it, and let's us know how it turns out.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Sparx

Dan, lots of modern recipes do call for adding commercial yeast. This is because some sourdough cultures are more active than others.

Yep, and mine seems to come and go on how active it can be. It is fun to watch how it reacts when I feed the starter. I refused to throw away the starter when I was making it. Many of the recipes had you throwing away starter at certain stages. Flour was and is in short supply, and irregardless, just tossing the starter away goes against the grain. So to speak.

I took the "extra" starter and put it in another quart mason jar. I have two starters, each in a one quart mason jar with the lid just sitting on top. When baking, I take what I need from both jars.

Originally Posted by Sparx

You can make your sourdough culture more active by feeding it more often. Transition your starter to being fed twice or three times a day. Then compare those results to prior results. I find that feeding the starter st the end of the day results in a starter that is ready to go the following early morning.

I don't feed it more often, but I do feed it the night before making the dough.

Originally Posted by Sparx

Another trick is to make a sourdough preferment. Mix your starter with about a third of the total flour in your planned bake, plus a little more than a third of your planned water addition. The result you are going for is to be slightly wetter than your planned final dough. Let this rise a few hours on the counter or overnight in the fridge. Then mix the rest of the ingredients in to achieve the final recipe. The idea of the preferment is to get the yeast population rapidly increasing just before it meets the full grain load of your recipe. The yeast will then aggressively go after the flour in the full recipe.

I thought about making a preferment but I don't mind just mixing the dough and letting it take its time. Years ago, I started baking bread with a no kneed recipe so letting the dough do its think over time is ok with me. It will get there eventually.

King Arthur floor recently sent out an email about dealing with the yeast shortage and how one can use less yeast. The cost is just having to wait a bit longer while the yeasties multiply and do their thing before baking. Kinda figured that out myself. I used to make beer, aka, liquid bread, and you have to wait until the beasties have done their work.

I just wish I had remembered with this last loaf to bake Monday morning instead of Sunday night. The crust was really good, and would have been much better if eaten as soon as the bread had cooled down. <yum>

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks to all
I do admit to being intimidated by making it for my first time ever.

Especially on board in the Tropics, on an induction stove top, where introducing the baking heat in Zaida's galley and a failure would profably make for an irritable day (She is not a bread eater and I only like to eat sourdough)

My Webber Q BBQ is an idea, but we use it a lot for seafood and I wonder if the residual flavours would mix with the baking?
...

My first, best bread was when I tried a no kneed recipe. This was not a sourdough bread though but the technique works the same. Basically, one has a wetter dough than usual which, along with a long rest time, helps the gluten to form. Over night works.

Then one would use a dutch oven, I bought a heavy cast iron one, that is left in the oven when it preheats. The recipe called for a 450F oven. This makes a crusty bread but I do not like handling a blazing hot, heavy, cast iron dutch oven. One mistake and it would be bad burn time. Also at 450F the bread was a bit burned for my tastes so I lowered the temp. I have done 350F or 400F and I can still get crunchy but not burned crust. It just takes a bit longer to get to done.

American Test Kitchen, which is a TV show and cooking magazine, had a similar recipe except they put the dough in the dutch oven and put it in the oven during preheat if I remember right. I have also put the bread in the oven when it was at temperature. Did not seem to make a difference.

I don't see why one could not bake bread in a BBQ. Just start it up and maintain the temperature. Using a dutch oven would help but as long as the temperature is correct it should work.

Having said that, I moved away from the dutch oven with sourdough and I am just using a cast iron bread pan. The amount of whole grain flour I am using is not enough to fill up the dutch oven enough to make a thick loaf. I could add more flour but then it would be too much bread to eat in a week. The whole grain bread last six-seven days if I don't east it all first.

I now put the loaf pan on a tray in the oven and add some water to the tray. This helps steam the bread and get a good crust. Using the dutch oven with a lid traps the moisture from the dough and creates a good crust. I just add water and do away with the lid. It is easier than some of the other things I have done.

Another change is that after 30ish minutes of baking I take the loaf out of the bread pan and continue baking. This is giving a better all around crust. Bake until the bread is 205-210F.

I have made white bread, whole grain bread, and rye and whole grain breads. I also add seeds to the bread as well. I just take a recipe and make some guesses/changes and bake the bread. Taint had a bad one yet. Some have been much better than others but all were good to eat and far superior than much of the so called bread sold in stores Sourdough is fun because it is a living thing.

This is the recipe I sorta follow, https://www.kingarthurflour.com/reci...h-bread-recipe. The website has a huge number of recipes for sourdough bread, along with other breads. Good source of information.

Give it a try. If you can sail a boat you can make sourdough bread.

Later,
Dan

[StuM]

Originally Posted by 1950

I make yeast bread on induction cook top and cast iron Dutch oven. I cook about 25 minutes on bottom then flip the the oven over an cook the top about 15 minutes to form top crust. Works very well.

Dwight

What sort of wattage do you have the induction hob set at?


(We foolishly gave away our cast iron dutch oven when we moved on board. I'm seriously thinking about getting a replacement).

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Sparx

That turbo broiler looks like an excellent idea. I have never used one, but from a quick look online I am thinking it might bake a nice loaf. I see it as a convection oven with a top heating element.

First my first try with it I would preheat the turbo baker, and drop the dough directly into the unit. Then immediately pour in a little boiling water, and slam the lid on. This would be without using the cast iron dutch oven. I am thinking the overhead heat convection should give a nice crust to the bread. I would aim for 425 F temperature as a first guess, decrease if it gets to brown before the loaf is fully cooked internally. The water addition helps to get a good rise in the first couple minutes of baking.

At home I get excellent results backing loaves inside a dutch oven placed inside a convection oven. So I would not rule out that approach with the turbo broiler either.

Play with it, and let's us know how it turns out.

Thanks Sparx
I got the old one out of storage to give it a go.

What I like about this is that its portable and can fit in a few places inside and out where heat is not an issue.

It even fits on a forward counter near the shower, so out of the galley/dining area and useable in rainy weather.

That may become its permanent location.

Being as you say a top blowing convection oven I am wondering about that direct hot air, which is quite strong.

When Zaida does a whole chicken, she usually needs to turn the crispy breast skin over after 20 minutes and then crisps the underside in 15 minutes

When baking banana bread in it, she has to tinfoil the top to prevent the strong blower from scorching.

So with Sourdough, would baking it in a cast iron pot and lid give it more of a consistant heat, or do you think that is that overkill?

[Sparx]

Baking in the cast iron with a lid gives very consistent heating, plus holds moisture in, which is helpful during the first 10 minutes or so of the bake(when the bread is still rising). If a cast iron pan fits in the turbo broiler give it a try.

Going without the cast iron is also worth a try. As others have said, there are lots of ways to bake a fine loaf. Aluminum foil over the top of the bread is a well demonstrated way to reduce browning of the crust to give the loaf interior time to catch up.

A possible downside of the turbo baker is rapid loss of moisture during the bake. I am only guessing here based on assumptions for how the device is set up. If that is the case, then cast iron with a lid is an excellent solution.

This turbo broiler looks very interesting. Lots of potential. It may take trying a few thlrials to dial in a procedure for best results. Let us know what you get. I am thinking this group could help steer the technique once we hear what you get.

As a side note, bread recipes can be easily scaled up and down. Just keep the proportions constant. I like to cook loaves that contain about 2 cups of flour. These small loaves last a meal or two, but more importantly let me try many variations.

[Pelagic]

Good tips sparx
Turbo broilers are very popular in hot countries, because they are portable enough to cook outside

Irmaflex has the best reputation.

Definitely roasts a large chicken faster than any other method and they remains extremely moist but with crispy crackling skin

This Baking discussion on using one suggests that a small dutch oven would make better bread

But I think he got a cheaper one without the extension ring and less power

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/516...-turbo-broiler

[jduve]

I note you have a induction cook top, so you probably have an inverter on board. If so you could use a slow cooker. . I have successfully made Sourdough bread in a slow cooker. Just bake on the high setting for 2 hours. It bakes at a lower temperature and is very energy efficient. The only drawback is that the lower temperature does not produce the crisp crust of a high temperature bake.

[colinalleck]

Originally Posted by Monte Cresto

You can use a pressure cooker on the stove top on a low flame.
After charging batteries we put the dough on the engine to rise
for 30 minutes - 1.0 hour. Then the low flame on stove. We did
this every 3 days and had fresh bread clear across the Pacific.

If using pressure cooker please remove rubber gasket that seals the lid

It worked well for us 👍

[Macblaze]

I don't have much to add, there are some great tips and ticks here. But I will say that one of the things that gets lost as you become a better baker is the knowledge that most any loaf is a "good" loaf. As you progress you get more concerned with "crumb" and "crust" and "flavor" but really, when you are starting out all that really counts is edibility and that fresh bread smell

So just go make some bread and never forget that even burnt sourdough is good sourdough!

(I forgot I had turned on the convection to preheat the oven...it was delicious anyway.)

[1950]

Answer to question from Stu:

My induction cooktop is Duxtop 8100MC 120v 1800w. I power it with a 1500w inverter on 360ah lithium house bank. It fits perfectly on top on the gimballed Taylor's 28 kerosene stove. (I hardly ever take the trouble to light the kerosene stove anymore.) I put the cold Dutch oven on the cook top set at 320f degrees and read 770w on the Victron 702 monitor. (No other loads on battery bank.) After a few minutes the load was 460w. I turned up the temp setting to 360f degrees and power draw went to 510w. I waited for about five minutes and power went down to 250w. Once the oven reaches the bake temperature, the power requirements are modest. I wrap the top and sides of the oven with a towel or sweatshirt to limit heat loss. The load on the battery bank is very reasonable for a loaf of fresh hot bread. After reading the threads on this post, I think I will try sour dough bread. Thanks to all for sharing their ideas.

Dwight
S/V Bonnie Mae
Noyo River, CA

[dannc]

Originally Posted by 1950

...
I put the cold Dutch oven on the cook top set at 320f degrees and read 770w on the Victron 702 monitor...

....Once the oven reaches the bake temperature, the power requirements are modest. I wrap the top and sides of the oven with a towel or sweatshirt to limit heat loss. ...

So, after the dutch oven warms up, you just turn down the heat, wrap the dutch oven and you do not turn off the burner?

When do you put the dough in the dutch oven, when you start heating the dutch oven or after it has heated up?

Does the bottom of the bread burn if the burner is still on, even at a low setting?

Thanks,
Dan

[1950]

Dan,
Sorry for the confusion in my post. I was just responding to Stu's post. I did a test this morming to answer his question about how many watts the induction cooker uses. I was just trying to describe the test procedure in my last post.

To bake bread, I mix all ingredients in the dutch oven. Put it in a warm place to let the dough rise,. After about an hour I nead it with a wooden spoon in the oven, put in warm place, let it rise again and nead with spoon again. Then I scrape the sides of oven with spoon so they are clean. Then I lay the oven almost on it's side and apply olive oil the upper side and exposed bottom with my fingers. I work my way around till all sides and bottom are oiled. Then let rise third time, then cook on induction top set at 360 degrees Fahrenheit with towel wrapped around it to keep oven warm. The cook top has a thermostat and only uses as much watts needed to keep 360 degrees on the bottom of dutch oven. I hope this makes it more clear.
Best regards,
Dwight

[Lodesman]

I've used these which keep the heat in quite effectively: https://www.campchef.com/dutch-oven-dome.html
I haven't done bread in a dutch oven, but have baked pies - I put the piepan on a trivet in the oven - perhaps you could do the same with a loaf to avoid overdoing the bottom.

[Sparx]

Dwight,

I am really intrigued by the power consumption numbers. Just playing with the numbers in your post, let's say an average of 250 watts over 20 minutes to bake a loaf. The 250 watts is equivalent to about 21 amps at 12 volts. Over 20 minutes this totals 7 amp hours to bake the loaf. Does this seem about right?

This 770 watts max / 7 amp hours total power consumption would not challenge my battery bank or inverter at all. Plus our daily bake often takes place in the afternoon where our 600Wp solar panels have power to spare.

I would love to stretch out our propane consumption by using electricity. The oven is by far our biggest propane consumer. This is starting to look very intriguing.

I have lots of experience getting a good bake using a cast iron pan with lid on the stove top, I have been doing this for years. But I dont have experience with induction. It also seems the induction hob with insulated pan is going to significantly reduce heat in the galley.

Hmmm.. got me thinking.