Gin Tankage?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The next batch of tonic was made yesterday. It is improving each time, so in the interests of elevating the drinking pleasure of cruisers worldwide, I though it worth reporting back .

Feedback on changes made last time:
The coriander seeds were a very good addition (the lemon verbena did not have a noticeable effect).
Using lemon/lime extract instead of freshly grated rind was brilliant. In addition, big quantities of extract can be made when fresh citrus is readily available and its shelf life is at least a year or two.

Two changes this time:
1. Following Dockhead's comment about the excess citric acid in the last batch, I paid more attention to its effect and reduced the quantity, adding small amounts and tasting after each addition. Two flat soupspoons seemed about right (less than half the original quantity).
2. I eliminated making sugar syrup and instead added an extra cup of water when boiling the cinchona, and then simply added a bit over ¾ cup of sugar to the hot mix after being strained. Saves time and fuss and it is also safer having all the water boiled.

This mix requires little effort if you have citrus extract on hand and tastes fantastic! As an added bonus all ingredients can be happily stored unrefrigerated long term on a boat, so the tonic can be made anytime, anywhere.

TONIC SYRUP
= Trial # 5 since I very first started experimenting, the first two batches were not usable for G&Ts. The last batch was made on the 23rd April.

6 cups water
¼ cup cut cinchona bark
3 whole cardamom pods, split open and seeds scraped out
4 whole allspice berries, bashed with a hammer
½ teaspoon coriander seeds
1 heaped teaspoon dried lemongrass (I think it would be even better with lemongrass extract, but I have no access to freshly picked stalks)
½ teaspoon dried lavender flowers
1 teaspoon dried lemon verbena, crushed
2 flat soupspoons citric acid levelled off with a knife (a bit less than ⅛ cup)
¼ teaspoon salt
¾-1 cup sugar (to taste)
¼ cup homemade lemon/lime essence (= finely grated zest of 1 lime and 1 lemon per ¼ cup gin or vodka, soaked 5-7 days then strained)
1 cup gin (to improve the keeping quality)

- Bring the water and cinchona to boil, reduce heat, cover and simmer gently for 30 minutes
- Add cardamon, allspice and coriander seeds, cover and simmer another 1 min
- Turn off heat and leave covered for 5 minutes
- Add lemongrass, lavender & lemon verbena and leave 10-15 minutes (no more, as it will become bitter)
- Strain using a tea strainer (if you are careful, most of it stays in the bottom of the pot)
- Add the citric acid, salt & sugar and stir until dissolved
- Using a coffee filter, funnel and two clean dry 750 ml bottles, filter the liquid twice (speeds up if using two funnels)
- Add half of gin and lemon extract to each bottle (makes almost 1.5 litres)

With the last two batches, a dusting of sediment accumulated after about 2-3 weeks. It is most likely simply what the paper filter did not catch, settling out of the mix (I get the same thing occurring when lemon or ginger extract is made and that uses straight gin). If the liquid is carefully filtered again without incorporating this sediment and the last little murky bit then filtered into a different container (no point wasting it ), then the sediment does not reoccur.

I have been keeping the tonic unrefrigerated until starting to drink it. Two to three months seems to be no problem so far - crystal clear, tastes wonderful. The last batch was made on the 23rd April and there is still a couple of cups left. The third batch was made over 3 months ago and I held half a cup back to check for longevity. No problems so far.

I put the long life down to eliminating the need to stew plant matter in cold water for 3 days, particularly fresh stuff (I shudder to think what is growing in the resulting murky mix, no wonder two weeks refrigerated is the life expectancy then), coupled with ¾ - 1¼ cups of gin being added. As well, the citric acid acts as a slight preservative.

Cheers
SWL

Warning: Make and drink at your own risk - read the earlier posts about possible reactions with the use of quinine.

I'm necro-posting on this -- maybe zombie posting is a better phrase -- 5 year old thread. God how time flies!


I'm about to make a new batch of this, and just wanted to know if there has been any additional accumulated experience over the last 5 years which would benefit anyone making this.


Paging SWL!

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm necro-posting on this -- maybe zombie posting is a better phrase -- 5 year old thread. God how time flies!


I'm about to make a new batch of this, and just wanted to know if there has been any additional accumulated experience over the last 5 years which would benefit anyone making this.


Paging SWL!

Hi Dockhead
The last time I made a batch of tonic was mid 2016 (that was batch #6). The only alteration made to the recipe was to double the amount of lemon extract that was made with half the amount of citrus. Essentially this meant little change other than adding a touch more gin to the mix. The recipe did not seem to need any additional tweaking.

When we moved to northern Europe and the temperature plummeted, my thoughts shifted more towards substituting a few olives for the tonic.
I followed your suggestion and tried The Botanist. . Need I say more .
It is readily available here on the west coast of Scotland, as we are not far from Islay. It was harder to source further north.

Cheers,
SWL

PS Although I have not made tonic for several years, citrus extract is used a lot in cooking and I generally have a bottle on board. Learning to make this ended up being an unexpected bonus with this whole enjoyable experiment .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Dockhead
The last time I made a batch of tonic was mid 2016 (that was batch #6). The only alteration made to the recipe was to double the amount of lemon extract that was made with half the amount of citrus. Essentially this meant little change other than adding a touch more gin to the mix. The recipe did not seem to need any additional tweaking.

When we moved to northern Europe and the temperature plummeted, my thoughts shifted more towards substituting a few olives for the tonic.
I followed your suggestion and tried The Botanist. . Need I say more .
It is readily available here on the west coast of Scotland, as we are not far from Islay. It was harder to source further north.

Cheers,
SWL

PS Although I have not made tonic for several years, citrus extract is used a lot in cooking and I generally have a bottle on board. Learning to make this ended up being an unexpected bonus with this whole enjoyable experiment .

If you liked Botanist, try Napue. It's even that much better. Unfortunately, that much more expensive too. But you know, somethings are expensive, because they are worth it.



In good Helsinki restaurants, they will make you a G&T with Napue and Fever Tree, with a sprig of juniper and several fresh cranberries. Mmm, mmm. Although I think OUR tonic is much better than Fever Tree.





One question I have for you -- I am on a vegan diet (4 years already) with no refined carbs. No white flour, no rice, no pasta, and for God's sake no sugar.


I will make an exception for something exceptionally important like G&T's, but how far do you think this recipe can be pushed, in terms of reducing the sugar? Is there something which could be done with it, to reduce the sugar further?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

One question I have for you -- I am on a vegan diet (4 years already) with no refined carbs. No white flour, no rice, no pasta, and for God's sake no sugar.


I will make an exception for something exceptionally important like G&T's, but how far do you think this recipe can be pushed, in terms of reducing the sugar? Is there something which could be done with it, to reduce the sugar further?

Although I only flirt with a vegan diet (more so with time, as it pulls seductively), over the last few decades I have tried hard to limit my sugar consumption. I think sugar and trans fats are twin devils. Alcohol in large quantities is very detrimental as well, but I have never been a big drinker. This is probably what makes quality critical for me .

I actually dislike sweet drinks so the ¾ cup of sugar I ended up using for the tonic recipe was significantly less than in other homemade versions and dramatically less than in commercial brands. I sampled the mix while adding the sugar during one of the batches and decided this amount was about ideal for my taste. Half a cup was the lower limit.

I doubt substituting white sugar for a less refined alternative will actually be significantly better for your health, but maybe try using a couple of cups of apple juice (or concentrate) if you are happier consuming that. Two cups of juice will contain around 50g of sugar as opposed to the 150g in the ¾ cup of white sugar in the recipe. The flavour of the tonic is unlikely to be impacted much and may in fact be better.

Your taste after four years will have slowly altered so I think you will prefer even less sugar than was used in the recipe five years ago. A third of the amount may now be adequate.

SWL

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Although I only flirt with a vegan diet (more so with time, as it pulls seductively). . .

If I can comment on the appeal of the vegan diet . ..



There is no law which says you have to be dogmatic about it. If I'm at a party with a plate of stinky French cheese on the table, the vegan diet gets suspended. There has never been a lightning bolt from heaven in retribution.


But giving up dairy is brilliant -- the effect is much more noticeable than giving up flesh. You feel cleaner and suddenly tastes are much expanded. The palette (the palate's palette -- need to trademark that ) is greatly broadened. Dairy products are full of hormones, and you feel it. Full of saturated fat and all kinds of other crap which makes you feel heavy.


Just a tip.

[Seaworthy Lass]

PS If you are avoiding pasta, rice, and flour, as well as animal products, try the last recipe in the Mouthwatering Boat Recipes thread. The flavour is superb and the colour vibrant. It even regularly scores an enthusiastic tick of approval from my discerning, meat eating other half .

SWL

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

. . I doubt substituting white sugar for a less refined alternative will actually be significantly better for your health, . .

I agree. As far as I understand, fructose is actually even worse than sucrose. Fruit is good, but the sugar in it is not. Less refined is certainly good, but sugar is sugar.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

By the way, quinine is an alkaloid, and I get some definite drug-like effects from it. Not any kind of druggy rush, but I feel my body responding to it. Whether this is a good thing or not, I do not know.

You might want to be aware of cinchonism. This might be worth a read: https://www.alcademics.com/2014/08/p...nic-water.html

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You might want to be aware of cinchonism. This might be worth a read: https://www.alcademics.com/2014/08/p...nic-water.html

The overdose reported in the article apparently occurred because cinchona powder, not bark was used and this was very poorly filtered. Particles were actually visible in the drink. In addition, some people are particularly sensitive to quinine.

These issues were addressed in the recipe. I have highlighted the relevant parts.

SWL

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

TONIC SYRUP
= Trial # 5 since I very first started experimenting, the first two batches were not usable for G&Ts. The last batch was made on the 23rd April.

6 cups water
¼ cup cut cinchona bark
3 whole cardamom pods, split open and seeds scraped out
4 whole allspice berries, bashed with a hammer
½ teaspoon coriander seeds
1 heaped teaspoon dried lemongrass (I think it would be even better with lemongrass extract, but I have no access to freshly picked stalks)
½ teaspoon dried lavender flowers
1 teaspoon dried lemon verbena, crushed
2 flat soupspoons citric acid levelled off with a knife (a bit less than ⅛ cup)
¼ teaspoon salt
¾-1 cup sugar (to taste)
¼ cup homemade lemon/lime essence (= finely grated zest of 1 lime and 1 lemon per ¼ cup gin or vodka, soaked 5-7 days then strained)
1 cup gin (to improve the keeping quality)

- Bring the water and cinchona to boil, reduce heat, cover and simmer gently for 30 minutes
- Add cardamon, allspice and coriander seeds, cover and simmer another 1 min
- Turn off heat and leave covered for 5 minutes
- Add lemongrass, lavender & lemon verbena and leave 10-15 minutes (no more, as it will become bitter)
- Strain using a tea strainer (if you are careful, most of it stays in the bottom of the pot)
- Add the citric acid, salt & sugar and stir until dissolved
- Using a coffee filter, funnel and two clean dry 750 ml bottles, filter the liquid twice (speeds up if using two funnels)
- Add half of gin and lemon extract to each bottle (makes almost 1.5 litres)

With the last two batches, a dusting of sediment accumulated after about 2-3 weeks. It is most likely simply what the paper filter did not catch, settling out of the mix (I get the same thing occurring when lemon or ginger extract is made and that uses straight gin). If the liquid is carefully filtered again without incorporating this sediment and the last little murky bit then filtered into a different container (no point wasting it ), then the sediment does not reoccur.

I have been keeping the tonic unrefrigerated until starting to drink it. Two to three months seems to be no problem so far - crystal clear, tastes wonderful. The last batch was made on the 23rd April and there is still a couple of cups left. The third batch was made over 3 months ago and I held half a cup back to check for longevity. No problems so far.

I put the long life down to eliminating the need to stew plant matter in cold water for 3 days, particularly fresh stuff (I shudder to think what is growing in the resulting murky mix, no wonder two weeks refrigerated is the life expectancy then), coupled with ¾ - 1¼ cups of gin being added. As well, the citric acid acts as a slight preservative.

Cheers
SWL

Warning: Make and drink at your own risk - read the earlier posts about possible reactions with the use of quinine.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You might want to be aware of cinchonism. This might be worth a read: https://www.alcademics.com/2014/08/p...nic-water.html

I am aware of it, and it's definitely a concern. It's good that you point this out, lest people reading this thread might be unaware of the risks.



There are known cases of people making home made tonic, coming down with this.


You have to be careful with the dosage.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

The overdose reported in the article apparently occurred because cinchona powder, not bark was used and this was very poorly filtered.

True, but the article did point out that short of laboratory testing, there's no way to know how much quinine you're getting out of your bark, and that the amount used in the recipe results (theoretically) in considerably more than the safe limits established by the FDA or EU. This article suggests a better ratio is 0.5-2.8 grams of bark per litre: https://www.cocktailsafe.org/quinine...hona-bark.html

I applaud gastronomic experimentation, and only wanted to advertise the possible side effects. If you're experiencing no ill-effects, then I say enjoy your quaff. Sköl!

[IAmGroot]

Indicator of the times perhaps, but... My first thoughts as I read the first few posts in this resurrected necro-thread related to carrying gin in tanks is that it would also be a great base for hand sanitizer. Plus the base for an evening cocktail. Another potential way around the Customs folks maybe....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by IAmGroot

Indicator of the times perhaps, but... My first thoughts as I read the first few posts in this resurrected necro-thread related to carrying gin in tanks is that it would also be a great base for hand sanitizer. Plus the base for an evening cocktail. Another potential way around the Customs folks maybe....

Hand sanitizer tankage. Love it!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Hi Dockhead
The last time I made a batch of tonic was mid 2016 (that was batch #6). The only alteration made to the recipe was to double the amount of lemon extract that was made with half the amount of citrus. Essentially this meant little change other than adding a touch more gin to the mix. The recipe did not seem to need any additional tweaking.

. . .

Cheers,
SWL

PS Although I have not made tonic for several years, citrus extract is used a lot in cooking and I generally have a bottle on board. Learning to make this ended up being an unexpected bonus with this whole enjoyable experiment .

What was your experience with shelf life?


Do you think this stuff could be frozen for long term storage?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What was your experience with shelf life?

Do you think this stuff could be frozen for long term storage?

Hi Dockhead
I hesitate to give recommendations on storage. The original recipe that steeped the ingredients in cold water was a murky mix before filtering. The recommended life was two weeks refrigerated. I do not think I would have been happy keeping it even this long.

Boiling the cinchona for half an hour and leaving the rest of the ingredients steeping only briefly, together with not adding cold water (via the sugar syrup), not including any fresh ingredients (the lemon/lime rind was steeped in gin and only the filtered liquid was added, and the lemongrass I used was dried), plus the addition of more than a cup of gin I think all served to make my version longer lasting.

To trial the longevity, I kept remnants of several of the batches a few months sealed with a vacuum stopper and unrefrigerated. The remains of Batch #5 was even stored this way for a whole year mainly in hot conditions (including with the boat shut up on the hardstand) and the mixture remained crystal clear. It smelled unchanged and it was emitting no gases (the vacuum seal was retained). I was not game to taste it, but it gave me some confidence that if refrigerated, the mix was likely to have a long life.

Personally, I would not freeze it. Both the flavour and aroma are likely to suffer.

To increase the safety, I would simply add more gin to the mix and make sure no fresh vegetable matter is included when making it. All the gin you would normally use in a G&T could probably be added. It may even mellow out the harshness of cheaper gins.

Homemade recipes such as this carry some risk so whatever you do, I would err on the conservative side.

SWL