Gin Tankage?

[CaptTom]

A couple of things here. First of all, doesn't the body break down alcohol into sugar anyway?

Second, I'm not sure I'd call sugar "really harmful." It seems people love to label ordinary foods as "the enemy" without nuance. Look at Gluten, for example.

Rather, I'd say too much sugar has some negative consequences. Tooth decay, diabetes and obesity come to mind. Highly refined sugar compounds these negatives and triggers our natural craving for energy-dense foods and drinks.

The trick is moderation. I think of it like a budget. If I "spend" my allotment of sugar on a can of soda, that means I have to skip an equal amount of sugar somewhere else. And, to me, almost anything else is usually preferable to soda. That doesn't mean I won't have one on rare occasions, but I'm very aware of what it "cost" me.

[ohgary]

This is just silly..... We all know its should be rum tankage.

[Nicholson58]

One Caribbean cruiser famously converted a water tank to rum, installed a foot pump by the sink.

Different Caribbean islands have different deals and bargains. Martinique, extremely affordable rhum at the 27 distilleries in 2-3 liter boxes. Wine on the French islands is excellent at only 3-5 euros per bottle. Really stupendous at 8-15. Antigua in Faulmouth has mixed case discounts and boat papers avoids GST tax. We stored much rum, gin, scotch, wine below the cabin sole and other places. It doesn’t go bad.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

….A small amount of something harmful, taken every day, adds up……

It does not necessarily add up in a harmful way . This is what makes the whole topic of nutrition so very, very complicated (let alone because so much is still unknown).

For example:
- Our bodies are capable of metabolising/eliminating small quantities of some toxins (even taken regularly) while larger doses may be highly toxic.
- The blood glucose spike, insulin response and subsequent fall in BG induced by consumption of x grams of sugar in fruit will be very different whether the fruit is juiced or eaten whole, whether it is consumed at the end of a meal or on its own on an empty stomach. It is not just the quantity consumed and it does not just add up.
- Precisely what your stomach is already full of will effect how additional food is processed (eg the effect of eating sugar after a meal high in protein and fat, compared to one high in carbs).
- The way our bodies process food can depend on previous exposure (eg TMAO levels induced after consuming a meal with meat once a month 12 times are much lower than for someone who consumes exactly the same quantity 12 days in a row). Here again, the effect is not just cumulative.
- Substances consumed regularly in small amounts may be vital, while being actually deadly if taken in one big hit (think of fat soluble vitamins).
- How your body reacts to certain food depends on your state of health not just the amount consumed (eg consider someone with insulin resistance)
- The bioavailability of some substances (good and bad) depends on the presence of others, not just the quantity or sum consumed.
etc ……

The effect of the consumption of a teaspoon of white sugar taken once a day for 36 days, is definitely dramatically different to having 36 teaspoons (the 3/4 of a cup of sugar in homemade tonic) in one hit. It does not just “add up”.

If your diet is otherwise “good” and you are in good health, personally I wouldn’t worry about adding a teaspoon of sugar a few times a week (or occasionally eating meat or dairy). I would enjoy the sugar guilt free without resorting to potentially harmful substitutes.

[Wotname]

Sugar is a loaded term. Common table sugar is about 50% fructose and 50% glucose. They affect the body in very different ways.

Your body makes and needs glucose, it does not need fructose but it does love it.

Alcohol is converted to glucose in the digestion process.

The only safe limit of alcohol is zero - sad but true. Most of us are happy to indulge in some alcohol and accept the damage.

If you eat fruit, you are eating fructose!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wotname

. . . Alcohol is converted to glucose in the digestion process. . .

I don't think that's actually true. The main product of alcohol metabolism is acetate, as far as I can tell, from my amateurish reading of the technical literature.

"Since ethanol and acetate are only two carbons long, their products cannot be used for net synthesis of glucose or for anaplerotic support of the citric acid cycle or net glucose synthesis."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...06987720300797

What actually happens in alcohol metabolism is more horrifying than being converted to glucose. I wish I hadn't read that article.

Which reminds me of one of my father's jokes:

"I've been reading about the health consequences of alcohol consumption, and it scared the s*** out of me!

"So I've made a new resolution. From today -- no more reading!"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

It does not necessarily add up in a harmful way . This is what makes the whole topic of nutrition so very, very complicated (let alone because so much is still unknown).

For example:
- Our bodies are capable of metabolising/eliminating small quantities of some toxins (even taken regularly) while larger doses may be highly toxic.
- The blood glucose spike, insulin response and subsequent fall in BG induced by consumption of x grams of sugar in fruit will be very different whether the fruit is juiced or eaten whole, whether it is consumed at the end of a meal or on its own on an empty stomach. It is not just the quantity consumed and it does not just add up.
- Precisely what your stomach is already full of will effect how additional food is processed (eg the effect of eating sugar after a meal high in protein and fat, compared to one high in carbs).
- The way our bodies process food can depend on previous exposure (eg TMAO levels induced after consuming a meal with meat once a month 12 times are much lower than for someone who consumes exactly the same quantity 12 days in a row). Here again, the effect is not just cumulative.
- Substances consumed regularly in small amounts may be vital, while being actually deadly if taken in one big hit (think of fat soluble vitamins).
- How your body reacts to certain food depends on your state of health not just the amount consumed (eg consider someone with insulin resistance)
- The bioavailability of some substances (good and bad) depends on the presence of others, not just the quantity or sum consumed.
etc ……

The effect of the consumption of a teaspoon of white sugar taken once a day for 36 days, is definitely dramatically different to having 36 teaspoons (the 3/4 of a cup of sugar in homemade tonic) in one hit. It does not just “add up”.

If your diet is otherwise “good” and you are in good health, personally I wouldn’t worry about adding a teaspoon of sugar a few times a week (or occasionally eating meat or dairy). I would enjoy the sugar guilt free without resorting to potentially harmful substitutes.

Thanks! That's enlightening.


I think all this has given me a good steer, and now I even know the quantities and so forth involved. I like my tonic light and dry anyway. So cane sugar it is, in these proportions.


About the phrase "enjoying sugar guilt-free" -- I don't feel guilt over things like stuff I eat. Guilt in my inner world is reserved for actual mortal sins, especially if some other person suffers as a result of something I did. Maybe a better person than I would have guilt-bandwidth for stuff like sugar, but I don't.

[carstenb]

Dockhead

Let me help you out. Perhaps you remember when I showed up on your boat carrying a bottle of (at that time unknown to us) The Botanist gin. Later that day, after sailing when we were going to have sundowners, you found that you had committed a cardinal sin - you had run out of tonic.

Rummaging around in your spirits lockers, you found a bottle of Noilly Pratt and we made martinis with a twist of lemon

Only to learn that martinis made with The Botonist and Noilly Pratt are nectar of the gods and the only problem associated with drinking them is that they taste so good that it requires effort to stop at 2.

So dump the tonic - stock up on The Botonist and Noilly Pratt and enjoy life

cheers

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

….About the phrase "enjoying sugar guilt-free" -- I don't feel guilt over things like stuff I eat……

Mea culpa. I should have said “happily enjoy the sugar without dwelling on its negative impacts” rather than ”enjoy the sugar guilt free”

I am sure the benefits of receiving pleasure by indulging in tiny occasional amounts food or activities that are known to be harmful in bigger more regular doses, are enhanced if you are not worrying about their potential adverse affects.

PS As a bit of a hedonist this particular theory does not necessarily hold water .

[dannc]

Years ago, we were cruising down the east coast of Ireland after leaving Scotland. One night we were in port and the boat owner wanted a G&T with dinner. We had a long conversation about sugar, or worse, High Fructose Corn(HFC) syrup, being in the tonic water. I think the waiter thought we were nuts.

The owner decided to get the G&T. The waiter brought the drink, along with the bottle of tonic water. No sugar had been added to the tonic water. The Schweppes tonic water was bottled in Scotland.

When I got back to the US, I checked the Schweppes in our grocery store and it had HFC syrup.

We have noticed that when we travel overseas, we loose weight. We eat quite a bit more when traveling but we still loose weight. My guess is that the food is less processed overseas vs in the US.

I have made Limoncello at home using Everclear to get the lemon flavor out of the lemon skins. I dilute the Everclear, 150ish proof if I remember correctly, to about 40-60% with a simple syrup made from cane sugar. However, I use only half the sugar in the simple syrup instead of the "usual" 1 cup water to 1 cup sugar.

My granny used to talk about the Three Evil White Foods, white rice, white sugar, and white flour. I don't know where she picked up on the processed food is bad for you idea but she knew it before I was born.

We have noticed that there is less sugar in food overseas. US food is just loaded with sugar. I pigged out eating on our last trip to the Netherlands yet lost weight. I was eating pastries, fried fish, cheese, fries, various meat dishes, and dutch pancakes, yet I lost weight.....

There is a brand of frozen pizza I saw in the Dutch grocery stores called Big American. Not sure if the name was referring to the size of the pizza or the size of the people eating the pizza....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Dockhead

Let me help you out. Perhaps you remember when I showed up on your boat carrying a bottle of (at that time unknown to us) The Botanist gin. Later that day, after sailing when we were going to have sundowners, you found that you had committed a cardinal sin - you had run out of tonic.

Rummaging around in your spirits lockers, you found a bottle of Noilly Pratt and we made martinis with a twist of lemon

Only to learn that martinis made with The Botonist and Noilly Pratt are nectar of the gods and the only problem associated with drinking them is that they taste so good that it requires effort to stop at 2.

So dump the tonic - stock up on The Botonist and Noilly Pratt and enjoy life

cheers

How many years ago was that?

Yes, of course, this is a hot tip, and in fact, that's how my father celebrates his cocktail hour (even today, at 95). I do martinis from time to time.

Unlike my dad, however, who likes them on the rocks with just a few drops of vermouth, I like them shaken and with more traditional proportions.

And yes, my martini consumption spiked after that occasion you refer to. Another vivid memory from that cruise was your homemade guacamole.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by dannc

Years ago, we were cruising down the east coast of Ireland after leaving Scotland. One night we were in port and the boat owner wanted a G&T with dinner. We had a long conversation about sugar, or worse, High Fructose Corn(HFC) syrup, being in the tonic water. I think the waiter thought we were nuts.

The owner decided to get the G&T. The waiter brought the drink, along with the bottle of tonic water. No sugar had been added to the tonic water. The Schweppes tonic water was bottled in Scotland.

When I got back to the US, I checked the Schweppes in our grocery store and it had HFC syrup.

We have noticed that when we travel overseas, we loose weight. We eat quite a bit more when traveling but we still loose weight. My guess is that the food is less processed overseas vs in the US.

I have made Limoncello at home using Everclear to get the lemon flavor out of the lemon skins. I dilute the Everclear, 150ish proof if I remember correctly, to about 40-60% with a simple syrup made from cane sugar. However, I use only half the sugar in the simple syrup instead of the "usual" 1 cup water to 1 cup sugar.

My granny used to talk about the Three Evil White Foods, white rice, white sugar, and white flour. I don't know where she picked up on the processed food is bad for you idea but she knew it before I was born.

We have noticed that there is less sugar in food overseas. US food is just loaded with sugar. I pigged out eating on our last trip to the Netherlands yet lost weight. I was eating pastries, fried fish, cheese, fries, various meat dishes, and dutch pancakes, yet I lost weight.....

There is a brand of frozen pizza I saw in the Dutch grocery stores called Big American. Not sure if the name was referring to the size of the pizza or the size of the people eating the pizza....

Your granny was one wise lady!!

Add potatoes to the list and you've about got it.

I try to eat nothing with white flour unless it's a freshly made Italian bun. In Italy. My everyday bread is Northeastern European (Finland, Estonia, Russia) sourdough whole grain black rye bread -- yum! No rice, almost no potatoes.

Everclear -- that's the PGA we used in high school!! I had forgotten. We used to call it "liquid panty remover".

[poiu]

Average sucrose consumption or equivalent in the US is about 100g per day/head. 25 teaspoons. I can't imagine how it can possibly be so high and I would struggle to eat that much even noting that it is in everything processed from bread to cheese to pickles etc.


It is bad for you in a multiple complicated biochemical processes and a large part of the obesity and the epidemic of non-communicable diseases is attributable to it. That said, it has to be about the dose as it's impossible to eradicate completely. There are small amounts in veg even. Onions and carrots etc.


An analysis of sugar and how it is harmful, in similar ways to alcohol:
https://advances.nutrition.org/artic...107-3/fulltext




Sugar consumption chart from here, where sugar and obesity is explained:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6959843/

[poiu]

Originally Posted by dannc

snip. My granny used to talk about the Three Evil White Foods, white rice, white sugar, and white flour. I don't know where she picked up on the processed food is bad for you idea but she knew it before I was born.

My granny said something similar. She was born in 1904 and complained about her weight once. She said she must have been eating too many potatoes and starches. I didn't disagree, but thought it strange at the time (a few decades ago) as we were all taught at that time that carbs were good and fat was to blame for obesity and all other dietary ills and I didn't believe she was correct. I know know she was in fact correct.


Funny how the old culture or tradition handed down wisdom was good without the benefit of scientific research - I probably should eat more chicken soup. That was a health food she advocated.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by poiu

Average sucrose consumption or equivalent in the US is about 100g per day/head. 25 teaspoons. I can't imagine how it can possibly be so high and I would struggle to eat that much even noting that it is in everything processed from bread to cheese to pickles etc. ...

So many processed foods in the US have sugar, or worse, HFC. Years ago I was craving red hot breakfast sausages I had from time to time as a kid. The grocery store had 4-6 brands of these sausages and every single one had HFC added to a ^&*() sausage. My craving ended when reading the label.

Many people drink multiple cans/bottles of soda a day and soda is just loaded with sugar, well, HFC. Then there is fruit juice. People think it is healthy but it is not healthy when one drinks 12 ounces of fruit juice. The amount of sugar is very high but at least it is not HFC.

Pickles, pickle relish, BBQ sauce and ketchup all have sugar or HFC added. Reading labels is "educational." One expects sugar in cakes and cookies but pickles and sausage?

The more processed, the more likely sugar/HFC has been added in US food products.