How do you easily get your provisions aboard when at anchor?

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by hpeer

It’s one thing for a person who sails in confined waters, where you have no swell and limited wave action. It’s completely different for those who are island hopping and can have a significant swell even with no wind as the waves wrap around the island into your anchorage. And it’s different again if your monohull either rolls or pitches significantly. What works for one sailor on one boat will not work for another.

Yes. We managed our battery job in a pretty nasty anchorage with a good 1.5-2 foot swell entering the bay. But had I been alone it might have been more difficult to use just the halyard, as it needed one of us to guide the load and stop it banging around - the 220ah batteries were a good 40kg each. I would have rigged the main boom as a derrick if I had been alone.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Yes. We managed our battery job in a pretty nasty anchorage with a good 1.5-2 foot swell entering the bay. But had I been alone it might have been more difficult to use just the halyard, as it needed one of us to guide the load and stop it banging around - the 220ah batteries were a good 40kg each. I would have rigged the main boom as a derrick if I had been alone.

In similar situations, I've used the spinny pole rather than the boom. No multi part sheet to contend with, and easy to top it up to big angles if needed. But anything that serves as a gin pole will do the job.

Jim

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

In similar situations, I've used the spinny pole rather than the boom. No multi part sheet to contend with, and easy to top it up to big angles if needed. But anything that serves as a gin pole will do the job.

Jim

Sounds reasonable. Although not possible in our case as we're a junk rig. That also means that our boom is not much thicker than the battens, but using the entire sail bundle would be strong enough I think. It would take the boom plus 2 or 3 battens to equal the strength of a spinnaker pole. Although the entire bundle is also supported by topping lifts.

[hpeer]

Someone was asking for a more full description of what I meant when I said sugar scoops could be dangerous in a swell.

Now I don’t have a sugar scoop, I just observe them and have tried boarding dive boats in a bit of slop. So my description is at best second hand.

Could someone else here please provide some first hand knowledge of sugar scoops and how they behave in a significant swell, at anchor/mooring and hove to?
For loading provisions and for lifting a MOB in those conditions. What would be your concerns?
Many thanks.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

No multi part sheet to contend with,

Fair point
Although we actually remove our sheets when at anchor for any length of time to protect them from the sun. And the multi-part halyard means that my girlfriend can haul it with one hand.

Edit - Although I have never used the boom as a derrick, when the sail is reefed the unused sheet spans don't get in the way if the sheet spans have been properly designed, as the spans do not reach the deck block.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Someone was asking for a more full description of what I meant when I said sugar scoops could be dangerous in a swell.

Now I don’t have a sugar scoop, I just observe them and have tried boarding dive boats in a bit of slop. So my description is at best second hand.

Could someone else here please provide some first hand knowledge of sugar scoops and how they behave in a significant swell, at anchor/mooring and hove to?
For loading provisions and for lifting a MOB in those conditions. What would be your concerns?
Many thanks.

Agreed, and I don't think they help the situation in a following sea either.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Could someone else here please provide some first hand knowledge of sugar scoops and how they behave in a significant swell, at anchor/mooring and hove to?
For loading provisions and for lifting a MOB in those conditions. What would be your concerns?

When the boat is pitching the stern goes up and down a lot on all boats. The danger of sugar scoops is the fairly long flat expanse of the bottom of the boat. It's really easy to get caught under the boat with damage to the dinghy or injury to people. On catamarans the risk can be mitigated by tying the dinghy between the hulls and going on over the aft deck. On monuhulls midships near the center of motion is really the only option. Even with a conscious MOB you're better off midships. The literature and my personal experience agree on this matter.

Midships has the additional benefit of better leads for spinnaker halyards.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Midships has the additional benefit of better leads for spinnaker halyards.

Yes, and if you can get the MOB to beside the cockpit, the lifelines should be lashed there instead of using a turnbuckle, which allows you to cut them loose to haul the person aboard.

[noelex 77]

We often just lift the groceries out onto the stern platform, which is only just above water level.

Our other option is to lift the dinghy and groceries together up on the davits. Once the dinghy is at deck level it is easy to lift out heavy objects. If you have a RIB, strong davits and a good lifting system, this can be a good option that has not been mentioned.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I've always found that if I could carry the bag(s) back from store to dinghy, I could lift them on to the boat. Seems a non-problem at first glance, OP!

Jim

Yeah, what Jim said. Get yourself some canvas shopping bags.

[Manateeman]

Greetings. Although I loathe to shop at wallsnark, they do have a very nice insulated zipper bag for about $20. It has an outside zipper pocket too.
We split 10 lbs of ice into two bags and meat, milk, eggs, all do well for a car and dinghy ride. They dry better and faster than heavy canvas bags which I keep for moving tools.
Heavy batteries. Surrette / Rolls 5000 series ? You can take them apart into lighter cells but they do cost a lot. Less than orthopedic surgery.
With regard to sugar scoop sterns. I have no idea why on a well designed vessel, a sugar scoop would be considered an issue at all. Some huge swell. Seriously?Maybe a tsunami. Please, let’s have some science here.
I reference Principles Of Yacht Design by Larsson et al. Please read the section on hull design. In the fourth edition, on page 100, there is mention of the benefits of some stern overhang but sugar scoops are not specifically detailed.
We have a partial sugar scoop stern. Our dinghy davits fully overhang them with two pipes welded between. Getting in and out of the dinghy has never been easier or safer. A knotted line is suspended right over the center of the dinghy.
This was how whalers managed to get into their chase boats from the ship. Bringing heavy stuff aboard ? Add a handy billy it’s a resting place. Scuba diving? A place to hold you, and your tank. MOB ? I’d much rather pull a person overboard up out of the water from the scoop rather than amidships. Fall off alone in cold water naked. Our scoop is 4” over the water and not 4 feet. 4 inches requires something additional to arm strength. Lastly, it’s my favorite spot to scrub mermaids and manatees. And pee. And keep my gasoline jug. And land fish. And fight the kraken.
Happy trails.
Mark the manatee

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Hoist bags/jugs up to walkway from the dinghy. Doubt that you'd have enough goods to load on board that would fill up all the walkways. When you've off loaded the dinghy climb aboard and stow the supplies.

We do the above and it seems to work fine. For jerry jugs we use a gear hoist at the transom. In fact I bought the gear hoist for that purpose and then discovered how helpful it is getting an 8HP 2 stroke onto the dinghy. If the engine was a 4 stroke, it would be even more helpful!

[Lasivian]

I appreciate all the replies. I think a Sugar Scoop tail is on my "need" list at this point. Partly for loading things, and partly because I want to do a lot of swimming/fishing. If you want "water level access" it seems to be the way to go.

Thanks.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

When the boat is pitching the stern goes up and down a lot on all boats. The danger of sugar scoops is the fairly long flat expanse of the bottom of the boat. It's really easy to get caught under the boat with damage to the dinghy or injury to people. On catamarans the risk can be mitigated by tying the dinghy between the hulls and going on over the aft deck. On monuhulls midships near the center of motion is really the only option. Even with a conscious MOB you're better off midships. The literature and my personal experience agree on this matter.

Midships has the additional benefit of better leads for spinnaker halyards.

My observation is that boats vary a lot in degree of pitching. Has to do with amount of rocker in the hull and in the LWL and in the symmetry of the waterline plane. Our previous boat, an early IOR one-tonner, had lots of rocker and pretty symmetrical waterlines. It would hobby horse in a mere ripple at times and the stern would move vertically quite a lot. OUr current boat is quite different, with a much longer LWL, little rocker and a fine bow and broader stern. She pitches very little at all... little chance of a dinghy being caught under the stern... and zero, under wx conditions where you might consider unloading groceries!

Further, there are lots of stern designs that folks call "sugar scoops". Many of them are useless IMO, with only a few inches of foot room and sloping sides. Others are more like the drop down platforms seen on some motor yachts, suspended well above the WL. Those are indeed lethal if the boat pitches much. Ones like ours are IMO much better: a flat platform some 3 ft by 7 ft, only 4 inches above the static waterline.The sides are high enough to keep one from going off, and there are handholds. If required, a handy billy can be quickly hung from the arch above. IMO, this is not only a good place to offload "stuff", but a far safer place to recover a MOB than trying to hoist him up 4 feet (plus any lifeline height if present) with a halyard from the top of a wildly rolling mast. How many instances have we heard of where the MOB was lost or injured while being hoisted thus? I know where I'll be working should that dreadful situation ever arise.

A look at the attached picture may help in understanding what I describe. We find it bloody useful; some consider it a waste of boatlength.

Jim

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Our previous boat, an early IOR one-tonner, had lots of rocker and pretty symmetrical waterlines.

You're going to have to describe what you mean by symmetrical waterlines. I have seen some asymmetric hull designs on multihulls but never on a monohull. You get some asymmetry with heel and lift accordingly but from a waterline perspective I've not seen an asymmetric waterplane.