Old vs New style burners on the Force 10 stoves - is it an "upgrade?"

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Anyone have pictures of old vs new burners?

I took photos and they were lackluster. here is a link to the new burners: https://www.suremarineservice.com/Ga...-10/89013.html

[oprovence]

Tell me about your installation process of the new burners. Do you have to take the stove off the gimbals? I have the burner replacement kit but it looks daunting and I can't find any videos or schematics anywhere.
thanks

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by oprovence

Tell me about your installation process of the new burners. Do you have to take the stove off the gimbals? I have the burner replacement kit but it looks daunting and I can't find any videos or schematics anywhere.
thanks

We did not take the stove off the gimbals for this change but we've done so before.

However, on our Force10 and maybe others, it is very difficult to get the top of the stove off to access the burners unless you remove the sides, so you'd have to dismount the whole stove. I, on the other hand, modified the stove top so I can take it off without removing the sides.

Of course, since the burners mount on upper face of the stove top and the valves mount on the front face, you have to bend pipes to work on it. Not really convenient. We've decided that we will do anything we want on this stove without regard for the advice of Force10. If something needs fixing, and we see a way to do it, we do it. Standard parts are hard to get in some places in the third world.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by oprovence

Tell me about your installation process of the new burners. Do you have to take the stove off the gimbals? I have the burner replacement kit but it looks daunting and I can't find any videos or schematics anywhere.
thanks

First...welcome to the forum. I would highly recommend removing the unit from the gimbals and rebuild it 1)On a bench. 2)Lay down a cloth for all the pieces that want to get lost. As mentioned by Wingsail and myself, earlier, there are slight mounting modifications. Things fit but not exactly is how I can explain it. If your Piezoelectric lighter gave up the ghost along the way, this is a good time to replace it. Also, a great time to do a deep cleaning and polishing. Do not disassemble all the burners at the same time. Do them one by one.

[cadmus]

there are ok schematics and photos for part identification in this document ("...technical manual"). also including a old manual for archival reasons ("...old...").

I did not find instructions or videos anywhere but some videos are on youtube of people simply servicing the valves if you want a peak into what you might see prior to starting.

Will respond with more soon

[cadmus]

Originally Posted by oprovence

Tell me about your installation process of the new burners. Do you have to take the stove off the gimbals? I have the burner replacement kit but it looks daunting and I can't find any videos or schematics anywhere.
thanks

If you are a contortionist or if you have no other choice, I suppose you could do it on some models without taking it off the gimbles. It will make life easier if you put a tarp over a birth or on the foredeck, put a strap around it to grab and keep the door shut, remove it from gimbles (it is not as heavy as it looks). You need to remove the grating, the dials, the face behind the dials, then the top of the stove (sheet metal that the burner bolts to). On some this is rivets, on others it is sheet metal screws. I advise you buy stainless screws of various sizes for reassembly (plus locktite) in case you need to redo your replacement again someday.

Mine was 100% disassembled. Insulation was replaced. Everything was soaked, scrubbed. No piece of sheet metal was left attached. Long story as to why. Lots of work. When I take apart things like this... or motors... i have moments when I say "self, you should take photos or videos so you know how to put it back together" buy i never do. I should have. For a simple mini stove, it was rather confusing when i picked the job back up 2 years after disassembling.

If using rivets buy small stainless steel washers to back the (quasi) blind end when possible.

I gave up on the peizo igniter.

Still thinking of other comments as use it this morning.....

[cadmus]

Coulda Shouda Woulda:
i recalled using this exact stove on a WestSail year after year... I always tried lighting the small burner while opening the valve for the oven. The oven valve is on the far right of the face. I said to myself year after year.... "Self, if I ever have to rebuild a Force10 stove i am going to put the small (right) burner valve where the oven valve is (far right). Then move the oven valve to the middle valve location. More intuitive." Then myself said "yeah Self, good call. You should do that"

Then.... i totally forgot to do it as I watched myself rebuild that thing. Bummer.

[cadmus]

On second thought i would back both the front and blind side of each rivet if using rivets.

Someone posted then deleted a comment about the lower oven burner. I encourage that comment to be reposted. I was warned by Force10 that the bottom burner must remain "old" style. It is too tall (hits the lower heat-flame guard in oven) and will not fit in the burner hole (thermal coupling and screw holes do not line up). Others said they made it fit by grinding out a notch for the thermal coupling and modifying the heat shield. (This pertains only if your oven heating burner is a small round style, some are now larger and rectangular). I considered replacing the old little round stove burner in the oven with a new small stove burner. I could easily have cut, holesawed or ground any shape in the oven sheet metal. But i also heard something about the solenoid not being compatible.

[cadmus]

Sadly, the amazon link to the new bimetal thermometer (not thermostat) that displays on the face is long expired. But i am 85% sure it is this one:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/coo...732238143.html
fits just as poorly as the original

[cadmus]

While in there, you should lube your valves if using your old valves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5cAr2Wwfww

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by cadmus

I said to myself year after year.... "Self, if I ever have to rebuild a Force10 stove i am going to put the small (right) burner valve where the oven valve is (far right). Then move the oven valve to the middle valve location. More intuitive." Then myself said "yeah Self, good call. You should do that"

Then.... i totally forgot to do it as I watched myself rebuild that thing. Bummer.

At this point, you could always pull the knob off and paint the black knob to white.

I agree...I'm always turning on the wrong knob.

[Vila]

I replaced one large and two small Force 10 stove top burners last year and it was straight forward with one exception. I had to enlarge the stove top openings where the thermocouple come through the stove top.

My stove is the 1995 - 99 style which had burner caps as shown in the attached pictures.

The new burners work great and is also shown in the attachments. The smaller burners put out plenty of heat.

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Vila

I replaced one large and two small Force 10 stove top burners last year and it was straight forward with one exception. I had to enlarge the stove top openings where the thermocouple come through the stove top.



My stove is the 1995 - 99 style which had burner caps as shown in the attached pictures.



The new burners work great and is also shown in the attachments. The smaller burners put out plenty of heat.

Where did you get them
from? And may I ask how much? Thanks.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Where did you get them
from? And may I ask how much? Thanks.

I found mine at fisheries supply in Washington

[Vila]

I got mine from SureMarineServices.com, but they are now cheaper at Fisheries Supply.

At Fisheries Supplies the large burner kit is $99 and the small buyer kits are $103.77