Recycling, a rant

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Of course there is no simple solution, but what do we do, just give up and live in a sea of plastic and discarded junk? What is your solution?

I suppose laws regulating packaging might help but we have to remember we are living in a global economy and we (the USA) cannot regulate what goes on in other countries.

The bottom line is, the Earth would do just fine on its own without humans. Humans cause pollution and there are just too many humans for the Earth to support.

We need fewer humans. A start (in the USA) would be to quit giving people tax breaks and welfare payments for having children. Perhaps people should be taxed for having more than one child.

Like I posted, there is no simple solution.

[C420sailor]

I still run an iPhone SE. Bought it over five years ago. Works fine. Only app it won’t run is my Schwab app.

I built my desktop PC in 2009. Running Win10. I stream stuff on it, do CAD, no problems. It was a beast of a machine back then, maybe that is why it still performs so well.

My vehicle is a 1998 with 324,000mi on it. I hope to see at least 500,000.

I’m just not a big consumer, and it bothers me to see perfectly good equipment replaced just because it isn’t the newest whiz bang thing. If it works, it works.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

I still run an iPhone SE. Bought it over five years ago. Works fine. Only app it won’t run is my Schwab app.

I built my desktop PC in 2009. Running Win10. I stream stuff on it, do CAD, no problems. It was a beast of a machine back then, maybe that is why it still performs so well.

My vehicle is a 1998 with 324,000mi on it. I hope to see at least 500,000.

I’m just not a big consumer, and it bothers me to see perfectly good equipment replaced just because it isn’t the newest whiz bang thing. If it works, it works.

This.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by C420sailor

I still run an iPhone SE. Bought it over five years ago. Works fine. Only app it won’t run is my Schwab app.

I built my desktop PC in 2009. Running Win10. I stream stuff on it, do CAD, no problems. It was a beast of a machine back then, maybe that is why it still performs so well.

My vehicle is a 1998 with 324,000mi on it. I hope to see at least 500,000.

I’m just not a big consumer, and it bothers me to see perfectly good equipment replaced just because it isn’t the newest whiz bang thing. If it works, it works.

I'm similar in that sense. I upgrade a phone or PC when it's either functionally inadequate for my needs or when software / security updates are no longer possible on that hardware. For cars, I buy cars I like and keep them until I have a reason not to or just don't have a need for it. They're never new when I buy them, and certainly not when I sell one.

[Nauticus]

I'm proud to say I sail out of Port Whitby Marina and we/they have fully separated recycling containers for each type.

[GordMay]

People claim to be into the reduce-reuse-recycle philosophy.
But, just watch their hypocritical faces, as you rinse out a condom.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

This is perhaps the back end of the forum topic of "Provisioning: Food & Drink."

We are rabid recyclers. At home, we easily put out twice as much recycling as trash. On the boat, we religiously separate out our recycling. Again, easily twice as much recycling as trash.

We are 10 weeks in to a 4-month cruise from the Chesapeake to the Bay of Fundy and back. We have successfully disposed of our recycling once. Every other place we have been, recycling has been relegated to the dumpster. And then we start separating again....

Are we missing something? Are we the only people in the world who think recycling is good? Why can't we get rid of our cans, plastics, glass, and paper?

Grrrrr

On the bright side, the Canadians let us in! It's been a fun trip.

If you have that much recycling by volume you need to rethink your purchases. We are heading into year six living aboard in the Caribbean. We carry plastic containers, reusable plastic bags, shopping bags. Buy your street food in your own Tupperware, doggy bag is our own box. Shop the farm markets, street stalls and bring your own box, bag. We bring no paper or plastic back to the boat. This means selectively rejecting some items. Many Caribbean islands now prohibit T-shirt bags and foam clam shell boxes. There is NO RECYCLING. It would have to go on a ship to the US. This is not happening. Buy eggs? Bring a plastic durable egg box with snap on top. The admiral was hauled up on a vegetable crate in Martinique at the fresh market for bringing all reusable containers. The merchant shouted to all. This is how you should all be. This foreign woman cares more about our beautiful land than you.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Nauticus

I'm proud to say I sail out of Port Whitby Marina and we/they have fully separated recycling containers for each type.

The problem is that little of this stuff actually gets recycled. Plastics are especially hard. This is why Recycle is the worst option in the Three-Rs.

Recycling was a lie — a big lie — to sell more plastic, industry experts say

In addition to little actually getting recycled, often it takes more energy and other resources to recycle a material than it does to produce new from raw resources.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Nauticus

I'm proud to say I sail out of Port Whitby Marina and we/they have fully separated recycling containers for each type.

Did you read the thread and what actually happens?

This is typical of the whole eco/green movement. Lots of theater and little actual impact.

Most of the really impactful things you can don't have cool theater to go with them. Repairing and keeping your 10yr old car on the road is far more impactful but it doesn't gain you near as much eco-street cred as buying a $80k Tesla that has a huge footprint related to production.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

If you have that much recycling by volume you need to rethink your purchases. We are heading into year six living aboard in the Caribbean. We carry plastic containers, reusable plastic bags, shopping bags. Buy your street food in your own Tupperware, doggy bag is our own box. Shop the farm markets, street stalls and bring your own box, bag. We bring no paper or plastic back to the boat. This means selectively rejecting some items. Many Caribbean islands now prohibit T-shirt bags and foam clam shell boxes. There is NO RECYCLING. It would have to go on a ship to the US. This is not happening. Buy eggs? Bring a plastic durable egg box with snap on top. The admiral was hauled up on a vegetable crate in Martinique at the fresh market for bringing all reusable containers. The merchant shouted to all. This is how you should all be. This foreign woman cares more about our beautiful land than you.

The amount of packaging on things is out of control. I mean, I’m fine with peeled oranges in plastic tubs and even water bottles as they provide accessibility benefits to some people (tho anyone who can should get using a reusable bottle) but practically EVERYTHING is shrink-wrapped or in a clamshell or something. I was at a pet store the other day and the antler chews were shrink wrapped. Why? Do people think they’re sterilized until they get them home? What benefit does it provide to shrink wrap them?

We’ve started trying not to take excess packaging to the RV and when you go through several new items at once and see how much piles up, it’s quite eye-opening.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Most of the really impactful things you can don't have cool theater to go with them. Repairing and keeping your 10yr old car on the road is far more impactful but it doesn't gain you near as much eco-street cred as buying a $80k Tesla that has a huge footprint related to production.

Huh. You know, I feel bad occasionally that our 1995 RV is so not ‘clean’ relative to modern cars, but I wasn’t thinking at all of the waste produced if it were to just be scrapped.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

This is typical of the whole eco/green movement. Lots of theater and little actual impact.

No, this is emblematic of how sly industry and ineffective government have avoided actually coming to grips with this and the other consumption/pollution issues that we struggle with.

But sure, sh!t on anyone expressing a little concern.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No, this is emblematic of how sly industry and ineffective government have avoided actually coming to grips with this and the other consumption/pollution issues that we struggle with.

But sure, sh!t on anyone expressing a little concern.

valhalla360 has it right. "Recycling", for the most part is just a "feel good" exercise. The majority of what we put in the bins isn't worth what it costs to pick it up and much of it ends up in the landfill anyway but at a higher cost than if it was put in the trash in the first place.

As for "sly industry", it may be hard for some to understand, but industry is focused on making money. That's exactly what they are supposed to do. when I invest my money in a business, I expect them to earn a profit.

As for the "ineffective government", I can't say I'm proud of the government at this point, but you've got to realize that there are many countries in this world and one government cannot control what happens in other countries.

You can help of course by limiting your use of single use plastics and other packaging and disposing of unused items properly. I assume you've already stopped buying water and other beverages in plastic containers and have cautioned others to do the same.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by rwidman

valhalla360 has it right. "Recycling", for the most part is just a "feel good" exercise. The majority of what we put in the bins isn't worth what it costs to pick it up and much of it ends up in the landfill anyway but at a higher cost than if it was put in the trash in the first place.

As for "sly industry", it may be hard for some to understand, but industry is focused on making money. That's exactly what they are supposed to do. when I invest my money in a business, I expect them to earn a profit.

As for the "ineffective government", I can't say I'm proud of the government at this point, but you've got to realize that there are many countries in this world and one government cannot control what happens in other countries.

You can help of course by limiting your use of single use plastics and other packaging and disposing of unused items properly. I assume you've already stopped buying water and other beverages in plastic containers and have cautioned others to do the same.

Well this is not an uncommon answer. Industry is just makin' money like they're supposed to, governments (boo, hiss) are too incompetent/corrupt/evil to do much of anything, and so, if there's a problem, let's blame the people who brought the problem to our attention.

[Mike OReilly]

As I said, most recycling programs are really just an indirect subsidy for the industries involved. It allows them to externalize a cost that they would otherwise be on the hook for. And it also lets consumers continue to buy new stuff, while tossing older stuff, all coddled within the (mostly false) belief that most of their junk will be recycled.

It's a grand prop for the consumerist economy that we're all locked into now. But it doesn't have to be this way. As people know, many older products from the past were actually built to last. And it wasn't that long ago that many packaged products (everything from milk to beer) were fully managed by the producers. And that included managing the reuse network.

Packaging has become insane because it is easier for producers. It is also preferred by most customers (despite all the whinging ). Since producers only experience the upside, and face no real consequences for the overuse, it's clear what they will continue to do.

If we put the responsibility back on the producers, this would provide the necessary market messaging which would allow them to find efficiencies. By allowing them to externalize this cost it removes any market messages, and puts the financial burden of this pollution onto the shoulders of the commons -- which is a pretty typical action for an entity whose principal purpose is to maximize profit.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

If you have that much recycling by volume you need to rethink your purchases. We are heading into year six living aboard in the Caribbean. We carry plastic containers, reusable plastic bags, shopping bags. Buy your street food in your own Tupperware, doggy bag is our own box. Shop the farm markets, street stalls and bring your own box, bag. We bring no paper or plastic back to the boat. This means selectively rejecting some items. Many Caribbean islands now prohibit T-shirt bags and foam clam shell boxes. There is NO RECYCLING. It would have to go on a ship to the US. This is not happening. Buy eggs? Bring a plastic durable egg box with snap on top. The admiral was hauled up on a vegetable crate in Martinique at the fresh market for bringing all reusable containers. The merchant shouted to all. This is how you should all be. This foreign woman cares more about our beautiful land than you.

It is certainly noble to have a near zero waste footprint. And in some locations and lifestyles it is easier than others. But I will admit, we do like stuff that comes in packaging.

We use our own grocery bags. We never ever buy bottled water. We don't buy very much at all in the way of pre-prepared food. But we don't live at the farmer's market either.

We enjoy a soda or maybe two a day. We enjoy wine, but those boxes still go in the recycle bin. We like coffee, but that comes in a 64 oz plastic tub. Our milk comes in plastic bottles. We probably open six or eight cans of food stuff a week. Pickles come in jars. Spaghetti and rice and noodles come in boxes or bags.

In our current cruise from Maryland to the Bay of Fundy, we are quite glad that we packed as many provisions as we did, even though they have a certain degree of trash. We have shopped locally once every week or so, but that is frustratingly difficult without transportation. And Ubers and taxis often don't exist. The idea of walking over to the farmers market and local street vendor only works where it works.