Recycling, a rant

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

No, this is emblematic of how sly industry and ineffective government have avoided actually coming to grips with this and the other consumption/pollution issues that we struggle with.

But sure, sh!t on anyone expressing a little concern.

Expressing concern is fine....Making people feel good for buying the same polluting item because it has a green sticker (or dumping their pollution into a different trash bin before it goes to the same landfill) is worse than doing nothing.

Now they think they have solved the problem and/or done their part...makes it really easy to be self righteous with the poor slobs who aren't buying the green sticker products and maybe we should take away their choices and impose "far better" knowledge on them.

But feel free to be self righteous.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Expressing concern is fine....Making people feel good for buying the same polluting item because it has a green sticker (or dumping their pollution into a different trash bin before it goes to the same landfill) is worse than doing nothing.

Whose fault is it if the promised recycling back ends weren't in place? The consumer? Consciously choosing the course of action that is represented as doing the least harm, or sorting one's waste into separate streams... these are never "worse". Who are you making excuses for?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Whose fault is it if the promised recycling back ends weren't in place? The consumer? Consciously choosing the course of action that is represented as doing the least harm, or sorting one's waste into separate streams... these are never "worse". Who are you making excuses for?

Agreed, it's the consumer who is more interested in the appearance of being green than actually fixing any problem. Industry simply supplies what the consumer demands.

A perfect example of this is vehicle MPG...for literally decades, we saw no movement in fleet wide averages and car companies said they couldn't make more efficient cars. Around 2007, gas prices spiked and suddenly with no govt intervention averages jumped by around 25% in 2010...because consumers demanded it.

The fact that people don't care that recycle bins are going to landfills suggests, they really don't care beyond the appearance of being green.

[pesarsten]

Prior to my retirement from my corporate position, I was responsible for several large corporate facilities. Our office / warehouse trash was compacted and hauled away by one of the big waste management ( hint) firms.
After I was accosted by a team of our office staff for not having a proper recycling program in place, I purchased task specific bins and tubs for our corporate headquarters. I then contacted our waste hauler to arrange for pickup of the recycling.
He was happy to arrange a tour of their waste collection facility where everything except kitchen/food waste was separated.
He informed me that not recovering as much recyclables as possible would result in excessive costs for dumping in a landfill.
Of course my tubs , bin, and barrels weren’t returnable!
Separating the trash was cheaper than running duplicate collection processes.
Landfills are still cheap in some places but not on the US east coast.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by GordMay

People claim to be into the reduce-reuse-recycle philosophy.
But, just watch their hypocritical faces, as you rinse out a condom.

Belongs in the joke thread.


Scotsman at the druggist inquires about repair cost vs replacement. Comes back later and says, “the regiment has voted to have it repaired”

[Nicholson58]

A large number of recycling programs are feel good virtue signaling. The best you can do is figure out how to eliminate, find alternatives. This is abundantly clear once you get away from the first world. They don’t even pretend to handle your ‘recycle’ in these places. Hand your bag of trash to a boat boy and two EC dollars and find it floating past your boat tomorrow. Note my post #52, Caribbean living. Disposal on island is a burning dump at best. Glass and metal are hauled to deep water and dumped. Groceries as well as fresh markets have very little in the way of the packaging we consider normal. We wear backpacks for shopping, reusable bags and containers. You have pockets? Use them.

Your only responsible plan is to avoid adding to the demand. I have to believe the same is true in the US. I was appalled at the volume of packaging my children and grandchildren generated while we were together at the north Michigan cottage. The under sink can was emptied at least daily and the curb unit weekly but it was usually over the top. We two have not filled one of these in the two months since they departed. Look for lower impact alternatives and use your own reusable containers and your brains.

On the boat:
Save a potato chip bag. Use it for wet garbage and store it in the freezer. Dispose of the contents offshore.
Metal and glass. Crush and consolidate. Dispose at deep sea.
Plastic that despite efforts, makes it on board. Cut it into small pieces into an empty chip bag. Must go to a responsible receptacle on shore. They burn it.
Paper: cut up small and dispose over deep water.
Metal lids and bottle caps with built in washers, plastic coated paper, must go ashore.

Remember, all stuff sent to the island’s burn dump will eventually be dumped at sea. No such thing as recycle except what you personally re-use.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Agreed, it's the consumer who is more interested in the appearance of being green than actually fixing any problem.

There we have it again - all the consumer's fault.

Industry simply supplies what the consumer demands.

Oh horsesh!t. Bedtime stories of the plutocrats. You clearly don't know the genesis of most recycling programs, who promised what, etc etc.

A perfect example of this is vehicle MPG...for literally decades, we saw no movement in fleet wide averages and car companies said they couldn't make more efficient cars. Around 2007, gas prices spiked and suddenly with no govt intervention averages jumped by around 25% in 2010...because consumers demanded it.

More BS. There have been heaps of government carrots and sticks around vehicle efficiency and pollution, most often led by California. Did the consumers demand unleaded gas and catalytic converters too? Gas crises made more consumers choose smaller and more efficient cars, fleet average goes down. Duh.

The fact that people don't care that recycle bins are going to landfills suggests, they really don't care beyond the appearance of being green.

That's not a 'fact'. Most people are unaware of how badly the promised recycling programs have turned out.

[jeanathon]

Lake-effect, Do you think you you could have a bit more respect for your fellow forum users?
Of course you know better than Vallhalla and we all know it, but being polite won't cost you or us.

[Nicholson58]

This is almost as entertaining as an anchor debate.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

This is almost as entertaining as an anchor debate.

Only when Lake plants an anchor into someone's back.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Lake-effect, Do you think you you could have a bit more respect for your fellow forum users?
Of course you know better than Vallhalla and we all know it, but being polite won't cost you or us.

My faults are many. But I think that lazy BS has to be called out. And I suspect valhalla enjoys trolling me, and I hate to disappoint.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

My faults are many. But I think that lazy BS has to be called out. And I suspect valhalla enjoys trolling me, and I hate to disappoint.

Well your points were lost to me since they were outshown by horsesh!t and the like.

I love a good debate, but delivery is probably more important than content.

[Nicholson58]

BTW, the super heavy low permeability bags in wine and rhum boxes make great refillable water bags. I like the rhum bags with a slight residual heal of rhum. We have a silicone soft funnel that perfectly fits the bag snout. Add water with a resulting 20:1 dilution or so. The water won’t foul. The bags are nearly indestructible and pack easily. My hiking preference is a bit of grog.

For those who don’t know, 3 liter boxes of barrel aged rhum may be had at several distilleries on Martinique for around €22! We just need to figure out how to get back Baguettes for €1.05

[Nauticus]

I dunno mike. You're usually spot on. I work in a recycling plant, and I certainly don't see things this way. I gotta work six days a week to keep up with the plastics. Maybe I just see it from another perspective.

Tim

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Did you read the thread and what actually happens?

This is typical of the whole eco/green movement. Lots of theater and little actual impact.

Most of the really impactful things you can don't have cool theater to go with them. Repairing and keeping your 10yr old car on the road is far more impactful but it doesn't gain you near as much eco-street cred as buying a $80k Tesla that has a huge footprint related to production.

Nailed it.

I occasionally get snide comments from the tree huggers about my Explorer. How it’s old, it pollutes, it burns too much fuel, etc. I maintain it very well, and get 22mpg on the highway. Most brand new SUVs don’t do a whole lot better.

The Prius (and now Tesla) smug is the worst. It’s like they think that the energy they use to charge their car comes from magical jellybean fields in the sky. It’s certainly more efficient than an internal combustion engine, but the production and ultimate destruction of the vehicle is absolutely horrible for the environment. Not that I’m saying not to buy one, but save the smug ego BS.

We had one burn up a few nights ago. Thermal runaway. Took many hours and an estimated 25,000 gallons of water to put it out and cool the pack off. A typical car fire? 500-750gal, tops.

There is no free lunch.