Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

[David Cross]

Hi, I made a spread sheet for selling my boat because it had so much more cruising equipment than other Catalina 42s of the the same age.

If you will email me, I will send you the sheet. Basically you have to enter all the equipment of each boat and then assign a value to each piece of equipment. You could add what it would cost you to add the equipment or something less to account for the equipment is not new. I used 50% of cost to come to selling price on my boat so someone who wants a Catalina 42 equipped for cruising will get a hell of a deal and a boat ready to go.

Let me know if you want the spread sheet. You may call me at 864 320 7084 to give me your email address if you want a copy of this spread sheet.

David Cross

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

In particular I want to be able to get smooth enough with them so that I can create one for comparing the cost/value of boat X with her as is equipment list, to boat Y with hers, when shopping for a cruiser ultimately kitted out to "level Z" with systems & gear.

Especially as such a thing would be useful to show/give to folks who are asking the perpetual question of "which boat should I buy". Where upon I usually tell them that a boat's gear can easily cost as much or more than the boat is worth/her initial purchase price. So they need to compare apples to apples, by doing a total vessel/gear price comparo (via a spreadsheet).

My spouse and I actually did this when we began the search for the next boat (which is now the current boat). Boat shopping is such an emotional and subjective thing, we wanted a way to be more objective in our comparisons, so we came up with a spreadsheet that ultimately helped us decide which boats to focus on, and which to let go. These boats all met initial criteria, so the spreadsheet helped us make the difficult choices.

The SH we created ranked each boat based on the range of criteria that we identified as important. It also created a bottom line cost to bring each boat up to our ideal standard.

The real challenge though is not creating the spreadsheet; that’s relatively easy. The real challenge is in in deciding what criteria to include, and more importantly, how to weight them. Not every factor is equal. But this weighting is going to be largely defined by each individual.

I’d say to make this a functional tool you’d have to create a generic spreadsheet of standard criteria, but then you'd have to provide a way for each new user to weight each specific criteria.

Of course this gets us back to the newbie searcher. Most people don’t know what they want until they’ve owned a boat and cruised for a while.

[Cadence]

Start with a blank piece of paper. You have contributed enough and read enough opinions to make an educated guess.

[NewMoon]

I made a spreadsheet to compare boats for my purchase last year. Nothing complicated at all, and easily modified. Not sailboats, but the format and example might be useful to you. If you'd like a copy of it (Excel xlsx format), send me your email address.

[Hobbitt]

Paul Kelly you are the distinguished graduate of the spreadsheet class!!!

Folks, as a 40 year technical services manager for a big blue computer company, I have trained literally thousands of users on spreadsheets and other utility programs. Make no mistake, a spreadsheet is an extremely valuable and easy to use tool....BUT

Spreadsheets are only worth the time IF you can define what it is that you want to compare and how you want to compare two or three different items. If you simply want to accumulate information...get a piece of paper and a ruler. If you want to do some analysis, then you need to define what is important to YOU and how you want to weight each item. For example, how would you compare a 39 foot boat to a 40 footer if the 39 had a new engine but old sails? The obvious approach is to provide some sort of pre-determined weighting factor. For example you might say that interior space is very important and give it a factor of 101. The right motor might rate a factor of 7. The general condition statement might have a weighting factor of 5. The condition of the sails might be an 8. There are a lot of other things to think about before you ever boot your computer. Where is the prospective boat located. Price has to figure in somewhere. Slip space is seriously important. Perhaps there are no slots for a 35 footer, but there are 10 available for a 30 footer. What about the extras that come with each boat. In general, I think you need to consider how you feel about the previous owner or broker. How you interact will be a huge factor in how they deal with you AFTER the sale, or whether they are truthful BEFORE the sale.

I am a stinkpot and so I know very little about sails except that they cost alot of money. But I have owned several boats in the past and have had both good and bad experiences. But as most of the people on this site are aware...the wife needs to be happy with the boat, too. Mine does not care about the engine, as long as it works...but she is devastated by some people's choice of carpet color. Seems a little skewed to me, but it is as important as your choice of anchor.

So, in conclusion, I have two suggestions. First, you better be able to write down EXACTLY what items are important to you and then be able to rank them meaningfully to truly be able to let the box do the comparison for you. Having said that... point number 2 is that it would be almost impossible to create anything that would exactly meet the needs of multiple boat shoppers. Undoubtedly you could make something that would help and each user could change the weighting factors as they saw fit...then you might get closer. Last point...the mechanics of creating even a moderately complex spreadsheet, are simple enough. But there is no point in even starting out if you don't know the factors that you want to include and are able to spell them out with very specific descriptions and quantification.

Good luck.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Hobbitt

Paul Kelly you are the distinguished graduate of the spreadsheet class!!!

Folks, as a 40 year technical services manager for a big blue computer company, I have trained literally thousands of users on spreadsheets and other utility programs. Make no mistake, a spreadsheet is an extremely valuable and easy to use tool....BUT

Spreadsheets are only worth the time IF you can define what it is that you want to compare and how you want to compare two or three different items. If you simply want to accumulate information...get a piece of paper and a ruler. If you want to do some analysis, then you need to define what is important to YOU and how you want to weight each item. For example, how would you compare a 39 foot boat to a 40 footer if the 39 had a new engine but old sails? The obvious approach is to provide some sort of pre-determined weighting factor. For example you might say that interior space is very important and give it a factor of 101. The right motor might rate a factor of 7. The general condition statement might have a weighting factor of 5. The condition of the sails might be an 8. There are a lot of other things to think about before you ever boot your computer. Where is the prospective boat located. Price has to figure in somewhere. Slip space is seriously important. Perhaps there are no slots for a 35 footer, but there are 10 available for a 30 footer. What about the extras that come with each boat. In general, I think you need to consider how you feel about the previous owner or broker. How you interact will be a huge factor in how they deal with you AFTER the sale, or whether they are truthful BEFORE the sale.

I am a stinkpot and so I know very little about sails except that they cost alot of money. But I have owned several boats in the past and have had both good and bad experiences. But as most of the people on this site are aware...the wife needs to be happy with the boat, too. Mine does not care about the engine, as long as it works...but she is devastated by some people's choice of carpet color. Seems a little skewed to me, but it is as important as your choice of anchor.

So, in conclusion, I have two suggestions. First, you better be able to write down EXACTLY what items are important to you and then be able to rank them meaningfully to truly be able to let the box do the comparison for you. Having said that... point number 2 is that it would be almost impossible to create anything that would exactly meet the needs of multiple boat shoppers. Undoubtedly you could make something that would help and each user could change the weighting factors as they saw fit...then you might get closer. Last point...the mechanics of creating even a moderately complex spreadsheet, are simple enough. But there is no point in even starting out if you don't know the factors that you want to include and are able to spell them out with very specific descriptions and quantification.

Good luck.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Ladies & Gents, thanks for the incredible number of responses so quickly. I'll try & get back to those who've kindly offered their assistance.

That said, it seems I need to clarify this thread a bit. My primary driving idea for a boat comparitor spreadsheet is to be able to plug in all of the various gear onboard a boat, with each piece of gear having a fiscal value. And then the spreadsheet will compute how much a particular boat is worth, given the quantity of gear onboard.

Put more simply, I want to be able to use a spreadsheet to determine the fiscal ($) value of the gear onboard any given boat. So that with that number, plus the price of the boat, it's easy to determine it's overall (package) value.

Thus, a $40,000 boat with (tallyed) $15,000 worth of gear onboard would be "worth" more than a $45,000 boat with $4,000 worth of gear onboard.
$40k + $15k= $55k vs. $45k + $4k= $49k

Make sense?

For example, say that I'd value each anchor on 40' boats at $500 each. So then if a boat has 4 anchors, I enter those numbers into the spreadsheet. And I'd do the same kind of thing for each set of jib sheets, winch handles, sails, etc.

Then, when I'm done inputting all of a boat's gear, I hit enter, & the spreadsheet computes the value of all of boat X's gear. Which, when paired with the cost of the boat, gives it's overall value.

The reason for the spread sheet being that on some use boats, the onboard inventories can be several pages long. Which, when tallyed by hand, the calculated value of all of that gear takes quite a while to figure out for each perspective boat.

So, spreadsheet to the rescue. Or so I hope.


Note: I suppose that one could use a spreadsheet to value each of a boat's design attributes, such as keel type, rudder type, etc. But ffor me anyway, sorting out those little details is not a point of contention, or one which I need any tools in order to determine their (combined) value.
Someone else can field that one. Particularly as the values placed on those attributes is a lot more arbitrary than are the $ values of gear onboard a vessel.

[John_Trusty]

The easy part of what you're asking is to simply total a column of figures, like a shopping list. In a spreadsheet, that's easy. Open one up (either Excel or free version on-line), start typing descriptions in one column (A) and prices in the second (B). When you're finished, there is a Sigma button at the top that will total it all up. Don't skip lines or your automatic totaling won't work smoothly. You can look at your formula to check your range. For a comparison boat, use the next column over. The things are really simple, but save some separate copies so you can go back when you really screw up.

The hard part of what you're asking is, "What is the value of that anchor / GPS / stove, etc?" What is "value" to you? Do you estimate the current sales price (like a garage sale), or what it would cost to replace the old rusty one? Perhaps that old through-hull has a negative value because it represents a couple hours of removal and fiberglass work, plus the $80 in brass. Perhaps the GPS is still usable, but needs updating charts. I couldn't even guess how to value my old VHF, even though it still works, who would buy it?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Start with a blank piece of paper. .............

There is a great deal of merit in this statement. Why? It's called planning. For example, lots of people have asked "What's the best program to draw a wiring diagram?" The answer is to "Start with a blank piece of paper," draw a draft of it up, and then go look for a program to make an electronic version.

Same thing with spreadsheets. Until you get good at it, it's pretty hard to start right off the bat with the electronic version. It took me quite some time to be able to go directly to a blank ss page and start working, and I'm very savvy with computers. You will be, too, eventually.

Don't beat yourself up, it's like sailing - it takes a while to get good at it.

Plan ahead on paper first, then input it and learn to edit. The suggestion of saving earlier versions is also very good.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

The easy part of what you're asking is to simply total a column of figures, like a shopping list. In a spreadsheet, that's easy. Open one up (either Excel or free version on-line), start typing descriptions in one column (A) and prices in the second (B). When you're finished, there is a Sigma button at the top that will total it all up. Don't skip lines or your automatic totaling won't work smoothly. You can look at your formula to check your range. For a comparison boat, use the next column over. The things are really simple, but save some separate copies so you can go back when you really screw up.

The hard part of what you're asking is, "What is the value of that anchor / GPS / stove, etc?" What is "value" to you? Do you estimate the current sales price (like a garage sale), or what it would cost to replace the old rusty one? Perhaps that old through-hull has a negative value because it represents a couple hours of removal and fiberglass work, plus the $80 in brass. Perhaps the GPS is still usable, but needs updating charts. I couldn't even guess how to value my old VHF, even though it still works, who would buy it?

I doubt there is a formula.

[JPA Cate]

Uncivilized: One difficulty I see with this is that while a sailboat may have, say, a chart plotter, but that by itself doesn't give you an idea of whether you would want to keep it. So, you may want to include a "depreciation" component into your thinking.

Ann

[skipper53]

I would use the same comparative spreadsheet system you used to choose your wife or girlfriend. The likes and dislikes will be pretty much similar: Is she quick enough? Well she treat you well? Do,you feel you have anything in common? Does she give you 3nough space?

A spreadsheet used to determine probable cost of ownership factorin initial cost, needed repairs, costs of storage, and cost of operation will prove to be much more valuable than one designed to tell you what you want to love and enjoy....
Just sayin'.......

[varkpilot]

Uncivilized: One thing I noted wasn't mentioned in any of the above. They probably just didn't think of it. Exel has a very good Help function, and if you have Windows, XL should be included at no cost. Otherwise, go for the Open Office version. The help file tells you how to do most anything with the spreadsheet, including creating the formulae you'll want to use. I was already in my 60s when I first took the plunge into spreadsheets. 13 years later I still occasionally go to the help file. If an old man can manage, I have no doubt you'll make short work of it. Best of luck.

Ray

[Mike OReilly]

Like others have said, what you’re asking for is painfully easy, while being nearly impossible .

It’s a no-brainer to tally up a bunch of figures in a spreadsheet. Insert value in column, SUM, done. But if you’re talking about a generic sheet which holds values for all the various kit and kaboodle possibly found on a second hand cruising vessel, with all the variables of age, quality, brand, current shape (depreciation), and etc... well, good luck is all I say.

You might be able to create a standard range of values for various standard items, but I’m not sure what good that would do. I do think you could create a generic sheet similar to the one I and others have described, but I don’t see how you can pre-populate it with usable values.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull

I would agree - except that someone who has no knowledge of spreadsheets isn't likely to pick up SQL in a hurry ...

For the OP, to keep in mind as you learn, the biggest beginner mistakes that spring to mind are:

- When you use formulas, stick to them. Never EVER overwrite a formula with a number even when you know it's the right answer. It will come back to bite you.
- Don't waste time on a lot of formatting. This is not a word processor, and you'll probably blow it all away in any case when you start doing clever things like sorting data.
- Don't insert empty lines or columns without a really good reason. They may make things look nice but will drive you crazy when you start sorting and summing things.
- Formulas can quickly get complex. Doing calculations in multiple stages, with extra columns or rows to hold the partial results, will make it clearer what you had in mind when you go back to change things.

Feel free to contact me with specific problems or if you need help understanding why something doesn't work the way you think it should. Yes, I'm something of a spreadsheet geek.

Excellent advice!