Can Solo Women Cruisers Feel Safe?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Jace

No no, you misunderstand. I didn't say women are weak. I said they are weaker than men.


Our PC society and "everybody's equal" culture seems to want to believe that.

THAT'S what I'm saying.

AMEN, though agreeing with your "truths" will categorize me too.

As far as the thread title, "Can solo women cruisers feel safe", I think that is most probably yes. "Feel safe" is relative and variable to the individual.

Best of safe cruising to all.

[barnakiel]

In Sweden yes, in Panama no. Ans so on.

b.

[bangkaboat]

Can solo women sailors feel safe?

It's simply a state of mind. No one, man or woman, feels safe in foreign waters/ports when they first start cruising. I'm a pretty big guy who grew up studying various forms of martial arts, x-military, blah, blah, blah, but I'm not about to take on a boatload of pirates. When I was 19, one of my martial arts instructors was a 16 year old girl who could kick the crap out of me. If you go out with an attitude of looking for trouble, I guarantee you'll find it. Unfortunately, a lot of guys - like some who have responded to this thread - view women as the weaker sex. If a guy with that belief is a scumbag, yes, a woman sailing solo will be an attractive target. Conversely, more decent people will come to the aid of a woman in distress. In the end, if someone wants to do you harm, it doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman. I highly recommend self defense courses for anyone who wants to feel more confident in handling an adverse situation. But, don't let being a woman stop you from doing what you want to do; there is no glass ceiling on cruising, other than that which you create for yourself.
Mike

[Jace]

"No one, man or woman, feels safe in foreign waters/ports when they first start cruising." bangkaboat -

I was raised in the L.A. area. I would go to Hollywood, Santa Monica, Los Angeles and walk out by myself late at night and feel perfectly comfortable. I then moved to the Oklahoma City metro area. I found I was a bit nervous walking around at night there. Now, L.A. is by far much more dangerous than OKC, but because it was unfamiliar to me, I was uncomfortable. Until I got used to it, that is. So yes, there is legitimacy to bangkaboat's point quoted above. Anyone will get to feel safer and more at ease after they have sailed for a while.

However - a "feeling" of safety is irrelevant to an actual state of BEING safe. If I were a poor lunatic, jumping into a pool of hungry crocodiles I might feel safe ... but I'm not. That's called a "false sense of safety."

If you tell a woman she no more to fear than a man does, you are lying to her and giving her that same "false sense of safety."

If I am an average sized male, then I am ACTUALLY safer that an average sized female, all things being equal - UNLESS!!! As a female, I have done something to compensate for my physically smaller, and yes, so sorry you PC'rs, weaker frame and musculature.

So if really and truly care for the safety of women sailing alone, please don't feed them all the bull about them being every bit as safe as a man because we are all in this together and we're one in the universe and all the same and Gloria Alred will be there for us in our time of need ...

Please, PLEASE!! Stop lying to her. Tell her the truth. Show her you care about her and want her not only to feel safe but to BE safe as well. Tell her she's IS weaker, and she IS smaller and she WILL HAVE TO ACQUIRE TRAINING WITH A WEAPON BE IT A GUN OR MARTIAL ARTS OR SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE HER THE SAME OR BETTER ODDS OF DEFEATING A MALE OPPONENT AS A MALE WOULD.

When she does this and is kept from being raped, tortured, or killed, she will thank you for it, and you will have done her a good turn. You will have been honest with her.

Do it! Tell her the truth. It is STILL the best policy.

www.joekeck.com

[Rangiroo]

Originally Posted by Jace

Tell her she's IS weaker, and she IS smaller and she WILL HAVE TO ACQUIRE TRAINING WITH A WEAPON BE IT A GUN OR MARTIAL ARTS OR SOMETHING THAT WILL GIVE HER THE SAME OR BETTER ODDS OF DEFEATING A MALE OPPONENT AS A MALE WOULD.
When she does this and is kept from being raped, tortured, or killed, she will thank you for it, and you will have done her a good turn. You will have been honest with her.

I love it how people who have never been near a boat give all sorts of advice on topics they know nothing about.

This is such errant nonsense as advice for someone going cruising. It MIGHT be applicable on the streets of Atlanta or LA or Memphis or somewhere but it's blatant scaremongering for someone going cruising. Why does everyone imagine that the absolute worst is going to happen then act as if it is fact?? How about YOU being honest with her and the rest of us and keep this crap in perspective?? Really...stick to writing fantasy.

In my experience the cruising community is VERY closeknit and protective in EVERY anchorage I have been in except those close to the US where I found people were very cliquey and much less inclined to be friendly.
The risks for a woman going cruising whether it is alone or with their male or female partner are marginally greater....and I mean MARGINALLY!..than for a man and the risks for both really are miniscule when talking about being "raped, tortured, or killed". I have met women partners on boats here in the Sth Pacific and they have reported NO problems at all and they have travelled the Coconut Milk Run the same as the rest of us. I have not seen nor heard of any problems myself on the same run in the last 2 years from the US East Coast to the Carribean to Panama and all the way across the Pacific EXCEPT one incident in San Blas where a woman was raped after her and her husband got drunk on someone else's boat and the perpetrators were OTHER CRUISERS and they were American!! Don't forget that for every "incident" on a boat you hear about there are literally THOUSANDS of other boats that didn't suffer anything. The odds are miniscule!!!
The best advice given so far is "Don't live in fear"....that's all you need. So many americans make the mistake of thinking the rest of the world is as dangerous as their country or worse......it isn't...it is WAY safer and friendlier!!!!! Go out and enjoy yourself.....in my experience so far it is a truly astounding journey filled everyday with absolute wonder! Forget the rest....you'll be too busy having a blast!

[Jace]

1. "Don't live in fear"

2. "Really...stick to writing fantasy."

3. "I have met women partners on boats here in the Sth Pacific and they have reported NO problems at all and they have travelled the Coconut Milk Run the same as the rest of us. I have not seen nor heard of any problems myself on the same run in the last 2 years from the US East Coast to the Carribean to Panama and all the way across the Pacific EXCEPT one incident in San Blas where a woman was raped after her and her husband got drunk on someone else's boat and the perpetrators were OTHER CRUISERS and they were American!!" - Rangiroo

As to point 1. I agree completely.

Point 2. I shall endeavor to do so as much as my conscience will allow.

And point 3. There are over 6 billion people on the Earth. Do you really think the infinitesimal number of a 100 or so people you know are an accurate sampling of the over 6,000,000,000 people on the face of this planet?

I don't want anyone to live in fear, but I want everyone to live in caution - oh yeah, and reality.

I want - we all want - our sisters, our mothers, our daughters and out wives to be safe from the lowlifes that look upon women and children as prey. Women are gifts from God. As an 'ever aspiring to be an honorable' man, I want to try to make this world one where we never have to worry about a woman or child being victimized, even though that is unattainable; 'to reach the unreachable star.' I would hope that men would protect women and children as if they were his own, even to the point where he would lay down his life for them, though the women or children be strangers to him.

But I fear that in our current world, that time has past. Sad.

As a friend of mine once told a couple of women who were thinking of joining his martial arts school, "Here in the 1990's, you have unchained yourselves from the kitchen appliances ... but at a price!" That price is safety. 50 years ago serial women killers and rapists were almost unheard of. Today, it's routine.

So all I'm saying is what the Boyscouts have been saying for decades: Always be prepared.

Yes, chances are unlikely that a woman will be attacked while sailing single handedly. The chances of your boat sinking is also unlikely - but you still carry insurance. That's what I'm saying. Carry protection insurance and hope and pray you'll never need it. However, better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it, as the saying goes.

What would the raped or killed woman who thought the risks were "marginally greater....and I mean MARGINALLY!" give to be able to rewind the clock of the past and instead of her being a statistic and having her body carried away, she is standing, scared, shaken, but unharmed, explaining to the police why there is a dead guy laying on the deck of her masthead sloop?

I think much.

www.joekeck.com

[barnakiel]

Is it really THAT bad?

I have sailed round the world and have never seen as much of the FEAR thing as in some of the posts above... Makes one wonder if they come from first hand victims/witnesses or are they rather second-hand accounts?

The real world was like this:
- the danger, if at all, was when in port,
- and then only in some parts of the world,
- like Panama, RSA, Brasil,

Why not just skip such places? Some spots are bad, they have always been, they will probably by in the future. Traveling far and wide and solo has always been a sort of a high risk undertaking. Consult Marco Polo on that. Consult Slocum. There is the risk. There is the option of staying at home.

Keep on sailing, stop in the nice places, and enjoy the fact that it might be the only time in the human history that we can sail around the world in relative safety.

Be aware, not fearful.

Cheers to all the community,
barnakiel

[nautical62]

Originally Posted by Jace

I'm sorry to say, women ARE at greater risk and danger than men when they are alone on a boat, or anywhere for that matter. Much to the consternation of the PC'ers, it's true. They are weaker, their bones and muscles are smaller, they aren't as robust and tough as men, and they can't take the physical punishment to the body like men can. They are easier to break.

Many risks are not physical risks and size/strength is not necessarily the biggest risk factor for physical risk. There are many other factors involved. Even when considering the risk of being the victim of a violent crime, consider that historically in the U.S., most violent crime victims are not women but rather men.

In 2008, according the the department of justice, 21.3/1,000 violent crime victims were male as compared to 17.3/1,000 that were female.
(http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cv08.pdf) Women are catching up. In the past, the ratio has been much higher with males being the victims of violent crimes almost twice as frequently as women.
(Bureau of Justice Statistics Violent Crime Trends by Gender of Victim)

[bangkaboat]

Jace,
I think that you need to actually go out & experience the world before advising others. I know many women who have travelled across Southern Europe, Asia, The Middle East, and The African Continent, without significant issues encroached upon them. I have, also, known some who have dealt with challenging situations as well, or better, than men could.

My wife & my niece have travelled more extensively than I have, which is saying a lot, without having to deal with more than the odd a-hole, certainly no more than when at home. As Mark J and Rangiroo have aptly pointed out, the consideration of solo sailing for women is really a non-issue. As I have read your blog & past posts prior to responding, I am of the opinion that your outlook is unrealistic & fearful - perhaps, to the point of being paranoid - when travelling to & through foreign lands. Aside from travel, I have lived for extended periods in the Southern Philippines & Taiwan and have only suffered from situations I have created or reacted foolishly to.

Btw, I am most impressed with your prose.

Mike

[Talbot]

Normly the biggest problems are caused by total ignorance of, and unwillingness to learn or understand the different culture. Western people (particularly politicians) seem to have these rose coloured spectacles that changes everything they see into their own cultural desires.

Half the wars (or probably more) have been caused by this arrogance.

a short time understanding the culture so you do not cause offence, goes a long way to avoiding trouble.

Country Insights | Centre for Intercultural Learning is a very good site to do a bit of quick reseach as a starting point.

[Southern Star]

Mark J was only suggesting that: 1. cruising isn't that dangerous (and for those who use any amount of common sense, he is absolutely correct); 2. that to him, giving up a $100.00 VHf is better than escalating a situation to a gun battle that could prove fatal, not only to the burglars, but to yourself or others in the boat. He was not suggesting that one should agree to be enslaved, nor put in a concentration camp, nor taken to the gas chambers without putting up a fight.

Frankly, I find the comparison of a boat burglary to the fate of the Jews in Europe in World War II to be offensive in the extreme: sorry, but it tends to trivialize the horor of genocide and the motivation for the same. And sorry, but a 'that's how Hitler started, by restricting guns' argument is such an oversimplification as to be laughable.

Surely in a civilized world, not all actions require a reaction, let alone an over-reaction and escalation. For most of us, sometimes it is better to give in, even if philosophically you would rather not. In our opinion the world tends to be a safer and saner place if we try to get along, even if that forces us to give up on some relatively small (or even not so small) piece of property rather than create a war. Even if it enables those who are in the wrong to occasionally profit from the same. Even if it occasionally operates as an incentive to those who commit theft (recognizing that even with all the guns on earth we will NEVER eradicate it - although actually, a reactionary with his/her finger on the button of the nuclear aresenal just might be able to eradicate theft by eradicating all property and people on the planet).

You have the right to choose to be armed (and in order for them to be really effective from suprise attack, to keep them loaded, unsafetied and at your fingertips at all times). Yes, you will find that many countries will not allow you to visit. Yes, you will find that many people with children will choose not to visit your armed encampments. Yes, you will find that many other boaters will not see your approach as creating a blanket of safety, but rather a hazard in terms of stray gunfire that could cause serious damage, injury or even death to boats anchored nearby.

In that regard, there was once a thread here proposing a flag that could be flown alerting others that people on board were nudists; perhaps we should start a discussion about a flag alerting others to boaters who are armed and who are prepared to shoot trespassers on sight. Yes, it may deter some thieves (although bearing in mind the number of gun stores in the US that are subject to robberies and 'smash attacks' by large vehicles, I'm less than certain that it would deter the serious criminals of the world for whom guns are so attractive).

But it would allow you feel safe, and allow those of us who would prefer being away from armed vessels to feel the same way. We each, both women and men, can then choose our own preferred path to safety.

Brad

[Rangiroo]

Originally Posted by Jace

But I fear that in our current world, that time has past. Sad.

As a friend of mine once told a couple of women who were thinking of joining his martial arts school, "Here in the 1990's, you have unchained yourselves from the kitchen appliances ... but at a price!" That price is safety. 50 years ago serial women killers and rapists were almost unheard of. Today, it's routine.

Again...this is absolute nonsense. Serial women killers are NOT "routine"...where do you get this stuff????....step away from the computer and go OUTSIDE and get some fresh air!!!! Sheesh....talk about ridiculous scaremongering again. Even rape is not "routine". Both crimes are horrific but out cruising they are almost completely unheard of. Again I say...the rest of the world is NOT like the US. The US is an amazingly violent place and the whole population is living in an atmosphere of fear fostered by media and government. The rest of the world is simply not like that at all.

Before you go making such asinine statements like the one above I'd suggest you get out and experience the world....some REAL world experience....that is...if you are not too scared to leave your sanctuary.....

[Jace]

"consider that historically in the U.S., most violent crime victims are not women but rather men." - nautical62

To nautical62 -
And can we check to see how many of the crimes against women are ones committed by men?

"Is it really THAT bad?" - barakiel
To barnakiel -
The term 'really that bad' is relative. How bad is THAT bad? If a woman doesn't think it's bad enough to warrant self-defense training or the posession of a fire arm, then I guess she shouldn't seek out such precautions. However, if it were my wife, daughter, mother, sister, friend, I would insist upon it.

"I know many women who have travelled across Southern Europe, Asia, The Middle East, and The African Continent, without significant issues encroached upon them." - bangkaboat
To bangkaboat -
Again, 6,000,000,000 people on the Earth compared to the tiny number you know? And yet again, if some are not impressed with the statistical figures of todays violence against women, then I suppose they should do nothing. If I were a woman, I would do something. And thanks so much for your kind words about my writing.

To Southern Star -
Blah, blah, blah ...

To Rangiroo -
Your last post is just a bit too much of a rant for me to respond to.

To all -
I guess we all assess our climate, personal response capabilities, and potential for criminal aggression differently. My original point was, quite simply, that women are smaller and less tough and powerful than men are. And of course, that is in-arguable, we digressed into a topic a little left of the subject. And I must say, I did enjoy the debate. It was informative and spirited, yet was kept friendly and had a modicum of civility. I really loved it. Not to say it is finished, but I hope we can do it again sometime. And although, objectively speaking, I have to admit that you are all quite in the wrong, you controlled yourselves admirably and even managed to insert a bit of wit into the discussion now and then. Bravo.

Isn't life just so damned cool?

www.joekeck.com

[Pelagic]

Perhaps some graphics on the side of your boat, or on the warning flag you wish to fly could be a bit less subtle …like this photo of a sailing friend.

As a thief or predator...that would make me think twice.

[Jace]

Pelagic -

I was in California, L.A., when Richard Ramirez was breaking into houses and raping and killing women - some men, but mostly women. During the time he was loose and on his raid of mayhem, breaking and entering crime went down 80%. After he was caught, it went right back up to where it was before. For those of you in Rio Linda, that means that the criminals were staying away from burglary because they knew people were armed.

If a rapist were to see that picture on the side of your boat, being an inherent coward, he would find a boat that offers no dangerous resistance to him. It's the nature of the shark.