Caribbean Bound In June, But Wife With Cold Feet

[TrentePieds]

A skipper's first responsibility is to teach the crew to run the ship. Have you done that? Very often, and not just in regard to sailing, a "failure to learn" is in reality a deficiency is the teaching.

You say that some people here are "harsh". Indeed, but they haven't a patch on old Neptune when he starts poking you with his trident. Could it be that your wife has the innate good sense to understand that, and that she has doubts about whether you are skipper enuff to stand him down when he gets cranky? Is there something in your skippering performance in the little sailing you have done so far that would justify her anxiety?

There is enuff "ideology" in your long post that I could be tempted to believe that acquiescence has been your wife's means of avoiding conflict for many years. But now she's outta sea-room. Now only outright conflict will, from her point of view, save the day. And the kiddies!

Looks to me like it's time to put the cruising plans on the back burner and focus on more important things. For the kiddies' sake. And hers. And possibly for your own.

TP

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by zstine

I have already left my job, sold our mooring, my car, motorcycle, etc. We've spent over $20k and countless hours getting the boat ready... She says now, she's not going and not allowing the kids to go either. Not sure what to do... I want them to come with me like they had agreed to do so many years ago. I think it would be fantastic for everyone, but that dream seems dead. And now I have to choose between my dreams and my kids. horrible... sorry, no real question. I'm just confused now.

Go.

It will be financially harder but you will have a life. You only live once. Your boat has an anchor, your mind shouldn't.

Maybe she can come visit you sometimes - if she pays her own airfare.
Otherwise it just tells you she doesn't really give a dam about you anyway... So getting out now is saving you later heartbreak.

Sincerely.

[DreaminFred]

Sorry man, that sucks (and not in a good way).

This story could have been mine 13 years ago. It wasn't the kids' age, it wasn't my wife's fears, it was me. I had learned to sail with them as spectators and when they participated I wasn't patient and kind enough to get them through the "tippy" parts. I have never been good at admitting what I don't know- I remember one particular short passage (while chartering) when it was blowing like stink, I was on the edge of exhilaration and fear and my kids and wife were huddled down in the cabin past the edge. That was 20 years ago and I've learned to reef early since then.

Sold the business, read all the Jack Aubrey series books, went to the boat shows, waited for the end of the school year while trying to figure out what the problem was. Looked for different ways to have my dream- a beach house, small boat for me, and others. Finally started another business, moved to the desert, went through the Great Recession, lost much of my "cruising kitty" and realized 9 years later that my wife and I would never want to live our lives the same way- I think they call that "irreconcilable differences".

Met a wonderful second mate soon thereafter, got in front of most of my hard-learned lessons. Talked about sailing dreams on our first date. It's taken four years, but I bought a Pearson 365 (with a separate shower stall for her) and are heading off for a shakedown cruise in four weeks. We have "issues", too and again, they're probably mostly mine. But I realize I love her because of her wonderful qualities that only become "issues" when I'm running bull-headedly forward. Now I'm 57, in love with a wonderful woman, love my home, have contentious relationships with my adult children and a 38 year-old boat! And hopefully 35 years to enjoy ashore or afloat.

Good luck, it will work out and you will be happy. But don't confuse a door for a window and when the road turns left, don't go right.

(Still) DreaminFred
SV Istana
Pearson 365

[skipmac]

I discussed this with my wife who IS a licensed counselor and got her take.

First, all comments are based on the fact that we are hearing only one persons description. Not saying at all that zstine is in any way misrepresenting the issue but everyone sees things from their own perspective and colored by their own experiences and preconceptions so hearing the wife's version could certainly add insight.

That being said, some of my wife's comments.

First, it seems obvious that the wife has issues with the trip and from zstine's second post she did mention some reasons "I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around leaving" and "I'm not sure I can live in a tiny boat" and " I don't want to be so far from my parents". However, communications does seem to be a problem. Based on very limited information there could be a lot more going on here. Some speculations and observations.

Zstine, you say you have communications issues with the wife. Sounds like the Tartan is as well set up as possible for your family but 41' can be VERY small. If as a couple, you aren't used to spending lots of time together without other outlets or distractions then weeks and weeks in close proximity with little or no interaction with other adults could be a problem. It could be a make or break the relationship situation. This idea is what your wife may be saying indirectly when she mentions tiny boat and hard time leaving.

I have lived on a 34' boat with my wife and infant daughter for a couple of years in S FL and the Caribbean so my wife has some been there, done that background. She immediately said she wouldn't look forward to spending the summer in the Caribbean on a sailboat.

Most probably a very big issue is fear of the unknown. While the trip was in the planning stages and departure years away it was some nebulous, maybe happen one day, daydream. Then an actual, fixed departure date looms and all of a sudden the wife is saying Holy S**t!. This is real!!!! I'm getting ready to go off for a year in a little boat without my friends, support system, family, no safety valve to go to when I need to blow off steam, spending all day, every day with hubby (where there may be communication or very possibly other issues to confront) etc, etc, etc. This fear very likely includes a fear of facing herself as well as the trip and relationship.

Bottom line, it's a huge bummer but children and family have to be first. It would be crazy to blow off the family to go sailing. Sailing will always be there, the kids will grow up and build their own lives and that opportunity will never come back.

[Madwand]

My experience is similar to DreaminFred above, but it was with my 8 year old daughter (after divorce) who was great at sailing, but I was terrible at keeping calm when giving her orders. She later told me she didn't wanna go any more.

Originally Posted by rwidman

A boating forum is not an ideal place to look for solutions to relationship issues. I'll suggest a marriage counselor.

Or maybe a boating forum can save you from 5-10 more years of torment that a counselor would advise before the inevitable happens anyway. Like Fred above, I sadly don't get along with my 23 year old daughter now, but I have a boat and I go sailing when I want to. And that mistress is way cheaper than an unhappy wife.

[sirfer]

My dream was to buy a boat and sail around the world. That was not my wife's. So we chartered for two weeks in Greece, with 5 kids. (Mostly grown up). No one wanted to get off the boat at the end. Next step was to buy a boat, which we did ( a 40ft cat). Our youngest is now 15, the others all now left home. Last summer I sailed down to the med and my wife and youngest flew out at the start of the summer holidays, with the other kids joining us for a week or so. At the end of the summer holidays my wife and youngest flew back, and I sailed home. We will do the same this year, and the next until our youngest is at uni. Then the decision will be whether to sail further afield. I would leave tomorrow and not look back, but if my wife says no, then that is fine by me.
My advice would be to do similar....sail where you want and have your family join you for 5, 6 weeks or so...then sail home, or leave the boat there and fly home and plan the next adventure. Do it slowly and leave them all wanting more. Hopefully they will all look forward to the next holidays adventure. The dream will not be a dream without your family with by your side. Have a long term goal/ plan, but understand that anyone can call time out at any time.
Good luck.

[Sunsetrider]

Kids are grown, I'm just going - alone!

[Cayuse51]

A real bummer. We cruised the eastern and western Caribbean for 18 months when our kids were 10 to 12. May have been the best thing we did as parents. It all turned out very well and so did they. But your wife has to be on the team and with the program. I would postpone the trip a year or two and start teaching her how to sail and be comfortable on the boat. Do some short cruises on the east coast this summer. Crewing on race boats in your area also is a quick way to learn. Consider joining a rally to sail to the Caribbean as a group. You will meet other cruisers with kids. But as many have said the trip is secondary. Keep the family together, raise your kids, and go cruising later.

[bobfnbw]

Sounds like you are at a crossroads, with 2 choices. Go or stay. If you go, you lose your family, if you stay, you lose yourself. Bad situation to be in. I would advise staying. Try to work it out. Go north as many have suggested for the summer. Try marriage counseling too. In the end, if the marriage is over, then another road will appear. Life will suck for awhile then it will get better. I too wanted to live aboard and travel with wife and kids. It didn't happen. Now 3 years from retirement, I'm planning again. I will go alone, and wife will visit, spending the summer with me, perhaps. Not they way I wanted it to be, but life is like that. Good luck and hope you make the right decision for you and your family.
Bob

[Three Sisters]

Who would plan a trip through the Bahamas in June ? The Op.

All the OP, wife and children need to do is spend five minutes on the weather websites for historical data to gain a little perspective.

As others have posted, it's hurricane season. And the historical weather information goes like

90 degrees feels like 106, rain/thunderstorms 3-7 days a week.

How about a year as snowbirds ? Maine to Key West or fill in the blanks. And everyone is always no more than a 90 minute domestic plane ride from the parents.

Could work.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Personally, I wouldn't sail down from NJ to Grenada during the hurricane season with two small children and the OP either. For safety reasons. Neither would my wife.

I think the point is valid, as do many other CF members.

Originally Posted by weavis

Ken
Please read what has been written.

This was not the issue for the wife. You make huge assumptions in stating this is her problem with the trip. NO WHERE DOES SHE MENTION THE SEASON.

I dont disagree with the seasonal timing... I disagree with the premise that it part of the refusal.

For this reason, your comment is not valid.

Originally Posted by GregW1309

Last year there was a hurricane June 1, first day of the hurricane season. Do some research at the hurricane center, lots of data there.

Why don't you go north instead and spend the summer cruising Maine / Nova Scotia. Give your wife a chance to do an extended cruise without the big commitment and less chance of a hurricane. Beautiful up three and a challenge too.

Originally Posted by GregW1309

Plus the Caribean is too warm with awful humidity in the summer. Go north and then decide about the Caribean in the fall , so you have a shot at nice weather during the winter.

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

A quick 2 cents:

As mentioned above the departure date of June 1 is too risky weather wise. This raises questions about the plan.

The wife backing out at the last minute is unacceptable, a relationship breaker. Your dream is not her dream.

T41 is a nice boat.

1 for 3 is not bad

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Who would plan a trip through the Bahamas in June ? The Op.

All the OP, wife and children need to do is spend five minutes on the weather websites for historical data to gain a little perspective.

As others have posted, it's hurricane season. And the historical weather information goes like

90 degrees feels like 106, rain/thunderstorms 3-7 days a week.

How about a year as snowbirds ? Maine to Key West or fill in the blanks. And everyone is always no more than a 90 minute domestic plane ride from the parents.

Could work.

Seems like there're a few of us who think weather and timing might be an issue.

[barnakiel]

If you want your kids to have more exposure to diversity, then why not move to NY and let them go to a school in Queens?

I did not find the West Indies to be very diversified. Mostly local people either Carib or white and plenty of white affluent tourism otherwise. And many locations (esp ex British colonies) vastly segregated. So ... why not Queens, Barcelona or some other diversified location where various people MEET, TALK and INTERMARRY?

And the argument of a 41' boat as being 'small'. Well, this one you cannot jump over, can you. For we all know here that a 51' is just as small. For what is big and small depends on who is talking. Sunday is a movable feast too, mind you.

I think you MUST regroup. I do not think this will work as is. It does not sound like it could. You may need another year to get this thing untangled, talked over or cut adrift. Plan for departure 2018, maybe.

And I 100% align with all posters above who say 'cut - NOT'. One can find a newer wife anytime but one cannot divorce their children. So ... step lightly, listen, listen, listen then think. And whatever conclusion you come to, make sure your earlier (than this dream) arrangements come before - make sure your kids have HOME and love and support now that they are growing up and need STABILITY perhaps up first. I would not be so tightass on this point this if not for the fact that my own father did not deliver either. I also have a sailing friend who is nearing the end of his life now, with his second family. There is only one thing he says he did wrong. Guess what.

Otherwise, we are all free people. You have your right to actually LIVE the dream, even if it be just yours. Your kids have their right to have a steady and balanced home while they grow up. Later, you will be free again, if that's what it takes. But not today.

LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN, THINK, only then act. There is no hurry. You will feel great when you do the whole exercise well. You will feel very bad if things go off the rails. That simple, I think.

Cheers,
b.

[Cheechako]

Bummer. Sell the boat, invest the money and get your wife to buy in to chartering once a year.
Another option is to situate so you can go to the Bahamas for a month or two if she'll buy in to that. After that she may be hooked... or may not but a great trip anyway.

[Shrew]

The more I think about this.......Did you openly express this desire to cruise BEFORE or AFTER having kids?

IF only after you started having kids.......who actually 'flipped the script'? Her or YOU? Think about this from her perspective? Did she have dreams of settling down and raising a family, only to get swept up in someone else's mid-life crisis?

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by zstine

........... I have already left my job, sold our mooring, my car, motorcycle, etc. We've spent over $20k and countless hours getting the boat ready... She says now, she's not going ..........

I don't understand how it got this far before she said she wasn't going. Obviously, a lot of money was wasted, not to mention of course, your dream.

So now you have to find a new job and buy a new mooring and car? If she wasn't going, why did she let it go this far?