Caribbean Bound In June, But Wife With Cold Feet

[JPA Cate]

ztine...

After your most recent post, I exhort you to seek counseling, for yourself. You are in a crisis situation, and it is way beyond all the well meaning comments you will get on CF to cure. You may (or may not!) benefit from professional counseling, but this situation is far beyond vernacular help. The "help" you receive depends hugely on your ability to receive it.

Good luck with it, man, this one is a really difficult one! I am sorry for your suffering, but you need to know, your wife and kids are suffering, too.

Ann

[daletournier]

Tuff spot mate, makes me cringe, really feel for you. Lepke has said this before " live her dream or live your dream" BUT kids! Mark J is right, you only get one shot at this, BUT kids! I understand and agree with you regarding the big house etc thing, but if she's comfortable and your not? it's just really hard when two people want different things. Can you not live your dream without having resentment? can she go cruising without having resentment? resentment is a cancer that grows in my experience. I wasn't willing not to keep cruising so I just did it anyway BUT I didn't have kids. Your also right, are you doing the right thing staying and not living your life for the sake off the marriage and the kids? Soul destroying stuff.
People talk of compromise, I suppose this is true but both need to compromise and sometimes that's not possible.
I don't know if there's a pain free solution.
Some really tuff decisions you have, no easy answers, it will work out, it always does, just not always the way you expected. No good ever comes from anger and resentment, do your best to stay calm and rational although it's hard in situations like this.
Good luck.

[daletournier]

Well said Ann, everyone is suffering in these situations and as difficult as it is, it's always best to try to stay mindful of this.

[barnakiel]

Aha.

The whole thing is stuck. There is no easy way out and so you must try the less easy ways.

If you feel your wife let you down before, you will have to go at least back to that point and work from there.

You are right where you say doing things the same way brings about the same results. Same actions same results. Time for something new.

If you sail onwards and your wife stays behind, then she "wins". And then again she wins again - in the court, so you would lose twice. This makes no sense.

So, to me, it is obvious, you are at least delaying your departure and playing the game. Yes, this sounds harsh. So you contact the right people (a marriage counselor, I think, then perhaps a lawyer too, not sure though) and ask your wife to do her part and try and find the solutions that fit everyone. Make sure the kids have their say in the process.

You are aware that your wife's arguments (disowned, kids pulled from friends, etc.) are 100% valid and it is just your perspective vs. your wife's perspective. And perspectives are opinions and feelings and so none is ever better.

Stick with YOUR dream. Sail away only when all local matters get sorted out in a way that makes the best compromise between your and your wife's equally valid rights. At time we find we are in a blind alley. And then we turn round and retreat and only then we look for another way ahead.

That's my take. Do not give up and do not push on. Stop and sort out the challenge at hand. Sail on when sorted out.

barnakiel

[jibstay]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Go.



It will be financially harder but you will have a life. You only live once. Your boat has an anchor, your mind shouldn't.



Maybe she can come visit you sometimes - if she pays her own airfare.

Otherwise it just tells you she doesn't really give a dam about you anyway... So getting out now is saving you later heartbreak.



Sincerely.

I agree. Move aboard immediately. Tell her she's welcome to come along, but either way, you're going.

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

I hope you take to heart some of the observations from people of how you talk about her and judge her ("immorality" statement).

He didn't call her immoral, that statement was about her opinion of owning a lavish home.

Originally Posted by barnakiel

your wife's arguments (disowned, kids pulled from friends, etc.) are 100% valid and it is just your perspective vs. your wife's perspective.

What's valid about thinking you'll be disowned if you move? That is irrational, not valid. But even if you had family who was chickensh@t enough to disown you for having a life, why would it matter? I'd be happy to get away from their controlling, sick behavior. Either way, not valid.

[Sea Dreaming]

Ztine,

My heart goes out to you. You are obviously doing your best right now. You have a lot to figure out before you take your next step, so go slow and realize that everything will get sorted out. If you have to put the 2017 plans on hold, do so knowing that the outcome for your dreams and your family will be better.

I think barnakiel is right, you should consult with a lawyer. It sounds like your have a considerable investment in your dreams and any changes now may effect that. So consult with a lawyer to ensure every step you make has the consequences you intend. Don't assume you know how best to proceed. I'm not saying you are headed for divorce but I am saying that actions you take could have consequences if you divorce. Make sure you understand how what you do will affect the future.

You obviously care about your family and I am sure their happiness is as important to you as your own. So do not fight about the kids. It's obvious that you and your wife diverge on some points in raising your kids. The hard part here is to realize that neither of you are right. Keep your end goal in mind, to raise adults who know how to be happy and care for themselves and others. If you keep the end goal in mind it makes compromising easier since you know that achieving the end goal is the only way you "win". If you decide not to fight about the kids everything will be easier for all of you. Remind yourself of that end goal often to help you keep perspective. That end goal will help keep your mind clear.

Peace be with you!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by jibstay

I agree. Move aboard immediately. Tell her she's welcome to come along, but either way, you're going.

Call it Just a hunch.... but I'm thinking there won't be a boat around to board or a cruising kitty if this fellow doesn't keep his cool and work things out. He seems unaware of Court ordered child support for the next fifteen years, Lawyers fees, division of communal property and alimony. Did he also mention in a post that he quit his job?

I don't know about the court system in NJ, but here in Massachusetts, the judges don't go easy on those folks who just "up and leave," especially when there are small children involved.

[TrentePieds]

Zstine:

I can have no idea of what family law may be in the jurisdiction in which you live. In the one in which I live, "mov[ing] aboard immediately" would amount to "abandoning the matrimonial home", and doing so is EXTREMELY costly.

The tension and resentment that must exist in YOUR GIRLS' home must be injurious to them, and that, I think, would be the case whether that home is the house they know, or a boat they would find so much more confining and laden with tension.

"Abandoning the matrimonial home" would be bad enough for you. Taking the girls with you without their mother's WRITTEN, notarized affidavit of concurrence would be even worse. You could then find yourself accused of abduction.

IMO you have NO choice but to seek a negotiated separation (negotiated via councilors and lawyers), a separation ultimately expressed in a court order establishing your visitation rights and support obligations. To ensure that the terms of separation will be as favourable to you as circumstances allow, you MUST leave a trail of evidence behind you that you have acted consistently in the best interests of THE GIRLS - not of you, not of your wife, but of the girls.

Doing so will make you a poor man, either of your own volition or through the agency of the courts. But only a dozen years stretch before you until the youngest reaches her age of majority. Those years will pass, and THEN you will be able to do as you like.

I am cruising now. Modestly, but cruising. With a woman in whom there is more love than I would ever have believed possible. She came to me when I was of an age at which no man can reasonably expect such a thing.

Put the Caribbean behind you for now and go and do what your girls require of you!

TP

[theoriginalak]

My friend, I don't know if you'll ever even get to this but I hope you do. I lived in the Bahamas for a little while in my early 20s, I have been dreaming of going back for a long time. My kids are only three in one right now. So let me say a couple of things. You're children are not going to appreciate this experience to its full list at six and eight. The fact is that if you go on a trip like this with an untrusting Wife, every bump in the road is going to be met with harassment and questions. The experience of that is going to significantly overshadow the experience that your children would have cruising around the Bahamas or the keys. Give it six or seven years. Earn your wife's trust through coastal cruising/overnighting. Then take her down to the keys on a few trips by car and show her how beautiful it is. Rent a boat in the keys. You're ignoring the number one rule and save cruising, which is to go when the weather is right. You don't take a trip like this with a sense of urgency or you get you and your tire entire family in trouble. If your wife still has no interest in going then take the children when they get old enough to make a decision for themselves. I just spent the winter in Costa Rica working for a non profit with my whole family. My wife didn't want to go, I prayed and waited, she came around but it was still a little begrudging. She mad an amazing time!! She trusts me more now and our next adventure might be a little bigger. Take it slow my friend. You're children will joy enjoy a trip anywhere with a continually disheartened wife.

[sailorcherry]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Call it Just a hunch.... but I'm thinking there won't be a boat around to board or a cruising kitty if this fellow doesn't keep his cool and work things out. He seems unaware of Court ordered child support for the next fifteen years, Lawyers fees, division of communal property and alimony. Did he also mention in a post that he quit his job?

I don't know about the court system in NJ, but here in Massachusetts, the judges don't go easy on those folks who just "up and leave," especially when there are small children involved.

Agreed.

I still stand by my idea of you sticking to the plan and her and the kids flying out to the Bahamas to meet you for two months of cruising.

Why not, in a very calm and loving way, go to her and bring out how she has bailed (or gotten cold feet) before over big plans? Remind her of the huge cost of this one and how it's now or never to go (based on the kids ages and the phase in your life).

Ken is right, you do it the other way and you will NOT be going anywhere due to your financial responsibilities.

Sorry but....Happy Wife, Happy Life.

[akprb]

This will sober one up fast (see link below) That being said it has been mentioned that this may not be the place for relationship advice.

I'd disagree. Many here have experienced life and life in close quarters on a cruising vessel. There is a wealth of experience and wise advice to be shared.

At the end of the day all the talk about budgets and bottom paint, best solar panel and where to anchor pale in comparison to with who and how you spend your precious time.

The mechanics of cruising are one thing, the interpersonal experience another and I would argue that as a supportive community we are tasked to help our friends maximize all aspects of the adventure.

https://youtu.be/q4BU4OdnbS4

[CaptJamesCook]

I am not a councilor.
No joy....
If you and your wife are not doing the whoopy.. or some good cuddling time. You need to get back to that,,,,,,,,,,You two need to get that Loving feeeling!!!~
My advice is conceed the one year delay.
Work on figuring out how to cope with the concerns she has. Find temporary work pay the bills. Does she work? If not see if she is willing to pick up a parttime job to help out. In the mean time settle for short Cruises. Usually when it comes to close blood family ties and spouse, the spouse looses. Just my honest opinion.

I do not know how much $20,000.00 is to you but it will be pocket change if you get a divorce. She gets the kids , the house , car, you get maybe your boat, the house payment, the car payment, child support, alimony(which is tax free to her), probably limited visitation rights.
Has it started to hurt yet.
Even if you get visitation rights does not mean the kids have to see you...but you could force that and start paying for counciling for them.
When you got married and had kids you signed a contract and you did not even read the fine print.
Go to the library go to the State law section. Look up under your states law the obligations of the husband and of the wife in marriage. If it is something close to oHIo it close to servitude fo rthe husband until the kids turn leagl age and if she has a righteous Attorney they will carry that on into college tuition and board.

Don't get me wrong I am an advocate for the institution.
But not for divorce..

It takes two to make a marriage but only one to have a divorce...
One can be the lonelest number..
Love can conquer everything. If you love her not only tell her, show her!~

Of this post take what you want and leave the rest.
Most people look for the answers they want. Not necessarily the best answers. But good luck, I hope you choose wisely.

Sorry I have way over used my word limit.

Godspeed
You can call me Nickolas

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Am I the only married, not previously divorced or single person who's offered up advice on this thread?

The overwhelming majority (>90%) of couples we met doing serious cruising were on second marriages (can't remember a third one). Take from this what you will.

We have spent several months in the cruiser community in Grenada (and lesser times in the Bahamas and San Bals) along with cruising to many countries. There are a few families cruising but not many.

There may not be many hurricanes in June but they can happen and one is all it takes. We went from Bali to Mauritius to South Africa and experienced a hurricane (cyclone) that passed to north of Mauritius in November. We had picked that month because there had never (as in ever) been a cyclone in that month. Anais got up to Category 3. Didn't cause us or anyone else a problem since it did not approach land until it had weakened.

Good luck with the counselling. I hope your wife goes and gets into it. From what you have talked about it really is a good idea for everyone.

[Larry Florida]

Watched the divorce video. Sick system!

Been through the NJ courts 25 years ago. Move south if you are getting divorced.