Help keep toddler safe

[1000 islands]

I put it on our boat to keep my dog from jumping off while docked.

It worked until he figured he could get under it, then I had to tighten the tension on the netting and that helped.

One time we were cruising and me wife was sitting on the forward deck when another cruiser came past us at about half plane and his wave was at least 3 feet and sent my little dog sliding off the deck and if not for the netting, he would have been gone for sure.

BTW I hate it when people don't either think or know about their wake and what it can do to other boaters.......and the shore.

[Nikki S]

I am so wary of tethers Unless they are so short that you can't get to the edge of the boat. If a person falls over the tether can cause their body to bang against the hull or be held against the hull, sometimes under the water where while the boat is moving, they can't be pulled up due to the forces at play. Needless to say we never had netting and I do tether my kids if it's ocean and they want to go up front. I would like netting too, for my own /husbands sake also.

[Hudson Force]

I remember being asked why I didn't put lifeline netting up for our dog. I replied that I could not justify it. What would my children think when they saw the dog netting, knowing that we never put up any netting for them!

We had strict rules about where and when life jackets and tethers were used. We had more risks with running rigging than overboard events.

I'm not adverse to the netting, but hanging and choking needs to be considered too!

[Steadman Uhlich]

I am a proponent of Lifeline Netting if the boat has small children aboard. This may seem odd coming from a person who has no children, so I will explain for those who want to know my view. I don't expect everyone to share this view, but sharing POVs is what a forum is all about.
________

I think every parent should do what they can to make the boat safe for small children. So, that is the first principle.

That does NOT mean I am suggesting using netting INSTEAD of a PFD or harness.

I think the best case would be to have ALL THREE in use and required by the parent (a boat rule) if there are small children aboard.

Why PFD?
Because if the child goes overboard for whatever reason, whether sailing or sitting at the dock, the PFD will keep them afloat. It may not prevent them from drowning, as many PFDs do not orient the body face up. During MOB drills in white cap chop on a bay, I have seen how easy it is to lose a MOB in 3 foot chop, as they can be lost in seconds (!), and apparently disappear because of the choppy surface. It would be even easier to lose sight in larger waves or swells. I don't think a PFD alone is sufficient when sailing offshore or in waves of any size.

When offshore I wear a PFD at all times when on deck and a safety harness too.

Back to Infants and Small Children:

Why Harness?
To prevent the child from going overboard and being separated from the boat. When a MOB is separated from the boat while the boat is moving, the risk to them increases that they may never be recovered.

Why Netting?
To prevent the child (or dog or adult) from going overboard, by slipping UNDER or THROUGH the lifelines. Yes, it will NOT keep them from climbing OVER the lifelines, which is why you need a harness too. But, if you sail your boat, and IF it is a monohull, it is likely your boat will heel. It can be VERY easy to slip under or through lifelines when a boat is heeled. It is also possible to go OVER the lifelines, but that is where the harness comes in.

Why Netting IF you have a harness on the chlld?
Because as shown in videos, when a person goes over the side while wearing a harness, the person is likely to sustain injury or drown even while being harnessed to the boat, and that drowning can happen in about one minute as the body is dragged through the water. Watch videos on Youtube that show how the water will wash over the face of the MOB while the boat is moving.

My reason for stressing netting is because I have been an accidental MOB myself, and despite being a careful sailor, I (a full grown adult man) went under the lifelines in an instant (without a harness) due to an accidental jybe while I was on the foredeck after a race. What that impressed upon me is that even careful, attentive, skilled, experienced, sailors can be a MOB in an instant (about one second!) and that is even with lifelines in place. I am convinced IF that same boat had Lifeline Netting in place, I would NOT have gone overboard.

So, IF I had small children, it would be my Boat RULE that while they are small they would wear a PFD, a harness, and I would maintain Lifeline Netting around the boat. One by itself may NOT be enough. All three together would be optimum, in my opinion.

As they get old enough to have confidence and strength, then I may remove the netting for bay sailing, but would likely reinstall it if offshore voyaging.

OK, I have said my piece. I know many cruisers have successfully had children on board without PFDs, harnesses, or netting. That is common and their choice. And when I was a boy in the 1960s I played in the street, rode a bike without a helmet, skated, climbed rocks, played with knives and fire and shot a gun and sailed without a PFD, and I did survive. So, each of us may survive and I am not suggesting we put kids in a bubble.

I am sure we all have different levels of Risk Tolerance. My own experience (MOB) has influenced my own view on the issue, and I don't expect that view to be shared by everyone. But, it is what I would do considering what I know, influenced by what I have experienced, and would motivated by what (drowning) I don't want to see happen to my child or any child on my own boat.

Hope that helps.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Here's a thread about keeping young kids safe onboard, along with an outtake of the information that I wrote for it included below. It's a good thread, & worth the read.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2110436

I wrote the below from the perspective that in the summer time at least, my brother & I grew up on boats, & around the water from about age 3. And that from about age 5-6 much of the time we had light supervision if any. Since we'd learned the rules about what constitued proper & safe behavior around the water. Both on boats, & on the docks. Including when we were supposed to wear life jackets, which we always put on sans prompting, in accordance with the rules. And that gave our folks enough assurance that we were safe, such that we had free roam of the marina so long as people knew where we were, who we were with, & when we were to be back "home", on the boat.

Also, when I first started living aboad as an adult, my neighbors, 5 slips down had a 3yr old son. And the rules for him were much as they were for my brother & I, though he was of course too young to roam the marina solo.
However, the way that the rules were for him reaffirmed what I'd grown up with. And he was a super mature, & very (happy) extroverted kid.

So the experiences that he & I shared, along with being an uncle to many more, & the experiences that my brother & I had are the basis for what I penned below/for the other thread on this topic.


For security, it's a simple matter to mount a barrel bolt type latch to the main hatch's underside. Plus, they also make ones which are childproof.
And such latches can be attached in various ways, including a couple, which, if it's not your boat, leave little evidence of it having been there, after you return the boat.
That, or simply brace a piece of timber or similar, between the lip which hangs down from the aft most edge of the hatch, & the molding which is the forward edge of the companionway.

As to the kids, the alarm idea is okay (the one in your other thread on this topic). And they also make stuffed toy animals which have built in motion sensors. Which when tripped, the animal makes a sound, or says something.
Too, you can teach them that the stuffed dinosaur is the "guard", & make it into a bit of a fun "game". For if you can get them to think that serious matters are also play, then they'll likely be much more likely to cooperate.
Also, lifting out teak companionway boards isn’t exactly a silent task. And for small kids, it’s not exactly an easy one either.

And you could even create some kind of rewards system for various things/behaviors. Be creative. Especially as, if they see & Feel, that you're playing along too, by the same rules, it becomes a lot easier. Kind of like it's sometimes much easier to get them to lay down & go to sleep if they're with or near you, & you're doing the same (albeit, doing the same with one ear open).
Too, were it me, I'd avoid any yelling at them for most things of this nature. But rather, ask them how they'd feel if you were to go topside & fall into the ocean & never come back. Then tell them that that's why they have to ask if they can go outside, & also, after a certain hour, you do the same with them. So that it's a "level playing field". IE: the rules are the same for everyone, regardless of age.

But also, given kids inquisitive nature, you could teach them that they can go into the cockpit any time that they like, as long as they ask you. And while you may have to get them to wait a minute, so that you can put down what you're doing, they'll get comfortable asking (usually).
Thus, after a bit of that, some of the draw of doing things which "they're not supposed to" may fade.

And you can always have some nights which are Family, camp in the cockpit nights. While others are stay below ones. Thus, they'll know that in a day, or on days X & Y, they'll get to spend plenty of time under the stars.
You can also put the idea into their heads of how nice it is to fall asleep listening to the rain on the deck, just a few feed above their heads. Or to make forts out of their bunks to sleep in.

Basically using a bit off psychology, & fun in general, to get them to behave safely. And, knock on wood, it should work, as there were never any such issues with my brother & I. And we started sailing from the age of 3, onwards.

[Steadman Uhlich]

More threads about "Toddlers" on boats from the CF archives. Lots of ideas and suggestions found within them.

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...&gsc.q=Toddler

[Don C L]

Any chandlery will have the netting. I got it for my kids and I too never put it on opting instead for life jacket and harness. My daughter now 11 is fine of course, but I am still nervous about my 5 year old. The netting is probably a good idea but don't let it give you a false sense of security. Keep the jacket on and the harness ready if not on all the time when sailing. My worst nightmare is one of my kids falling off with no life jacket. I too have thought about the proper tether length. If I made it too short they would moan and complain and might look for a chance to unclip it. Too long and it is too dangerous if they do go over. So now I have settled into combination medium tether length and vigilant oversight. If things get rougher I tell them to go below and watch a movie! (Didn't have THAT when I was a kid.) I will be glad when the little one is just as reliable as his older sister.

[SoundOfSilence]

We have installed the net and for us it feels safer both for children and grown ups to be on deck. It also keeps pillows, towels, books and all other stuff from falling over board.

[zeehag]

nanny.
then mom and dad can omit the hassle of raising kids.
nanny does it.
governess.
au paire.
many names for it. helps with home schooling, and management of the kids.
quite a number of the wealthier cruisers i have seen have these with them, as members of their crew. it was fun to watch momma when au paire went on holiday . but i digress. (remember i was in summer vacayland for the non~usa richie rich. or 3 years. )

this year i am considering making a net on my lifelines only to keep out the dock cat i renamed a**hole. he answers to that, as opposed to the name i was told it was. cotton line requires knots, synthetic line can be heat molded.
this will be fun.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by zeehag

............
...................... this year i am considering making a net on my lifelines only to keep out the dock cat i renamed a**hole. he answers to that, as opposed to the name i was told it was. cotton line requires knots, synthetic line can be heat molded.
this will be fun.

I know this is a good idea, but I can't help but recall the little Boa Constrictor that you had climbing onto your boat some time ago I have a vision of cargo nets full of snakes! LOL

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I know this is a good idea, but I can't help but recall the little Boa Constrictor that you had climbing onto your boat some time ago I have a vision of cargo nets full of snakes! LOL

OH HELL YEAH!!!!!!! bubba is getting bored, needs more toys... i hear they taste like chikkin.....

[s/v michaela]

I have a three and a half year old who was raised on the boat. He has never known anything else. I too netted everything but didn't shop at a chandlery...The best source for netting are sports netting sellers. You can get tennis,, soccer,,baseball ....any type, Size, thickness,, bordered ,unbordered ETC. Pricing is much better and the quality is superb.
Do it right and it will look good. Take the time to measure and install paying particular attn to the gates and you won't be sorry. As the kid grows decide then when it's time to remove it. It's a pain in the butt to deal with lines,fenders, fairleads and any other possible deck hardware but well worth it.
TEACH THEM TO SWIM!!!! I can't emphasize this any more strongly.
My little guy has tripped and fallen off the dock a couple times and has been able to swim back to me with a big surprised look but no harm.
Always know where they are and don't take it for granted that they can't get themselves in trouble.
Also it's a lot of fun to throw toys ,lines and daddy's tools overboard.....be warned.