Help us cast off! Need advice and inspiration: Family of 3, Great Loop? Boat size etc

[Mozzie]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I would for sure get the smallest boat that fits your needs, for the simple matter of cost and manageability. The tradeoff is a function of your adaptability; bigger is more comfortable, obviously. Where you fit on the spectrum is largely a matter of your collective personalities and needs. Unfortunately, not having prior experience, you don't have a yardstick by which to determine what's best for you. But here's a related fact: if you decide down the road to change boats, it will cost you less in absolute dollars going from a small boat to a large boat vs. the opposite. Boats are depreciating assets, and big boat depreciate more, year over year, than smaller ones.

I'm in a similar situation to you, young couple, soon to have kids, looking to start cruising. I really like what Sujin has to say.

Getting the smallest possible boat just seems to be common sense. It costs less to buy, repair, maintain, replace parts etc. When you are just a couple with a young kid. 30ft seems very comfortable.

Plus a bigger more expensive boat will just eat into your savings faster, which has a bigger long term effect on your savings in the future. A small boat now might mean years of extra cruising in the future. In five years time you could burn the boat and buy the bigger boat. It would still cost less including interest than buying the a much larger boat straight off.

I feel like pointing people to youtube is becoming a bad habit after a few posts here, but have you seen Sailboat Story? They just finished spending summer in the Bahamas in their Endeavour 33? with dad, mom and their 6-7? year old daughter.

[Caddy Shack]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Been a lurker for a while, time for my first post....

Well, the wife and I are in our mid-30's (OK, fine.... LATE 30's) and have decided to take an active role in our life plan, rather than mindlessly battling the rat race and waiting for life to just "happen" along the way. (That, along with finding the rampant consumerism and over consumption that pervades our landlubber culture intolerable, but that's another discussion....Still, we're no Luddites ourselves)

We've paid all our debts and have kept our expenses low, all the while our incomes have increased through the years. Thus, upon selling the house, we'll have enough savings to live off for 10-20 years with no income, depending on how frugal we want to be. We also have a comfortable amount in retirement savings, which will be left alone. We're both have college degrees and marketable skills and experience, so could enter the workplace again easily.

We have one son, five years old, who loves boating, camping and adventure. We're all in great health (vegetarians), cook all our meals from scratch, are handy, and repair stuff when it breaks. We're prepared to homeschool, at least until the high school years.

For the past few years, our plan was to downsize and start a homestead. Earlier this year though, we discovered the concept of a liveaboard cruising family and it seemed like that's what we've been searching for all along. I've since read dozens of books, took a 5-week sailing class, and we've started unloading our excess belongings. The wife has given it her seal of approval and is on board (as long as a hair dryer is available... still working on that one).


Some questions:

1) Blogs. I have many blogs bookmarked, but sure I've missed some. Got any to share, especially ones which resemble our family size and age? I figure these are some of the best sources of information and motivation.

2) Where to start? We thought the Great Loop would be a good, less intimidating start to the cruising and liveaboard life (although there's little sailing to do). Not too far from civilization, etc. Would you recommend this? We thought cruising the Florida coast would also suit us, and would involve more sailing. We're currently in Georgia, in the Atlanta suburbs, with parents in the Augusta area.

3) Vessel selection - size. What would be your recommendation? I know we have to decide this as a family, as living space is a very personal decision, but I'd still value your opinion on where to start. We're trying to find the smallest boat that will fit us comfortably. I'm thinking something around 30'-35', with a quarterberth for our boy and V-berth for the parents. Aft cabin boats look great too for their floorplan, but in that size range (think S2 9.2C), I've heard they're pretty cramped. Also, the steering is more complicated. With a small boat, we can also drop the mast ourselves on the Great Loop, when needed. If it was trailerable, it'd open up a whole lot more options (I know the boat listed above doesn't exist! Just listing some thoughts).

4) Price point. I recognize (more often than not) the buyer gets a better deal on a recently refitted boat than if he was to do it himself. In your opinion, where's the break-even point for vessel cost with a previous refit vs. refitting on your own, for a boat in the low 30' size range? From my observation, it looks like we'll need to spend around $15k-$35k, for a "simple", older boat with no major problems, good sails, good rigging, good engine. We're prepared to spend more, but it seems that would only buy "newer", with more frills and features which we don't need.

I want a minimum of electronics and doo-dads on board, for simplicity. (I'm a mechanical engineer, and have spent a 14-year career servicing and troubleshooting industrial electromechanical controls; I know what I'm talking about!). Thus, another reason to stay small, so we won't need power roller furlings, windlass, etc. As a disciple of Jay Fitzgerald and other "simple sailors", I'd even entertain the idea of an engineless vessel, although for the Loop and, as a first large boat, this would be impractical. For the Loop, impossible.

5) Health insurance. What are non-employed cruisers doing, insurance-wise? I know I'll be (rightfully) directed to read the forums here.... yet still I ask.

6) How have other families made the transition? I need details. I was thinking we'd downsize, sell the house, rent an apartment in Florida while boat-hunting, move aboard (living at the marina, until we're comfortable with handling the boat and finished outfitting), then cast off. Our parents would assist with storing the few things we don't part with, and handle our mail. Sound good? What are the alternatives?

Another crazy idea I had would be to have the (or, a) boat (or camper) parked on the side of the house and we live out of it for a few weeks. However, I think it'd be too tempting to (literally) abandon ship, run back into the comfortable house, and swear off the whole boat idea. It seems like we need to dive in head first if we're going to be successful, making failure not an option.

7) Any other families out there cruising with a single child? We recognize the need to socialize, but from what I've read, sailors are a friendly bunch and I'm sure we'll have no problem. I just wonder how many families we'll meet though with kids of a similar age....



Help keep us moving the in right direction! I'm afraid of becoming a lifelong armchair sailor while waiting for the stars to align. We all know that'll never happen. It's all too easy to dream about this while keeping comfort and (perceived) safety close at hand. We need to hold fast and stay the course to make this work.

My sincerest gratitude for your thoughts regarding the above verbose ramblings. Let it flow!

We have just stared our cruise (my wife and I, with our 3 year old, our dog, and an old friend along for some of the ride). We departed from SF Bay less than two weeks ago and are on our way to Mexico. My wife is quite new to sailing, so at times it is tough for her but she is getting there. I like a simple boat so that I can repair and maintain her myself, and spend time enjoying things rather than on repairs. We are a low budget operation and it is fine in warm enough water/weather. For cold climate cruising I would spend a few bucks more and add some creature comforts.

Our son is doing great and (no joke) loves being on board for long stretches. That being said, we make sure he gets to have a ton of fun on his bike and at the beach when we make it to port. We will try to hang out with other kids boats we run across, and have him spend time with the local kids.

Just make the leap, keep it simple and go for it!

My wife has started a blog: https://tosailornottobe.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wr_JT9p6c0

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by Mozzie

I feel like pointing people to youtube is becoming a bad habit after a few posts here, but have you seen Sailboat Story? They just finished spending summer in the Bahamas in their Endeavour 33? with dad, mom and their 6-7? year old daughter.

I think I came across them a few months ago, but they got lost in the pile of bookmarks I've been saving. I'll check them out again. Thanks.

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by Caddy Shack

...
Just make the leap, keep it simple and go for it!

My wife has started a blog: https://tosailornottobe.com/

I'll check it out. Thanks!

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by laika

....
Lastly, I don't have kids, just me and the GF cruising it part time now. Was full timing it from 26-33 tho, and over the years met tons of well adjusted cruising kids, all bad ass, resourceful and well socialized. It's a wonderful lifestyle and is easily worth the tradeoffs. High highs and low lows, but probably the last truest bastion of freedom in the world. Overall advise would be to jump in head first, but also leave yourself and the fam an escape route (which it sounds like you're doing). If things don't work out or you guys eventually want to dry your feet off on land again there'll be no regrets either way.

Best of luck!

That's what I was hoping to hear (kid stuff).

We definitely have a back up plan. Once we downsize, we can move easily anywhere in the country if the boat thing doesn't work out. I feel like I'm chained to this house filled with stuff right now....

I read somewhere that the real reason people enjoy vacations so much is that they're unencumbered by all their possessions, as they can only carry a minimum amount with them. Makes perfect sense to me. Same goes for camping, backpacking, etc.

I think that was also a George Carlin bit. Wise advice from a sage.

[Joe P]

Originally Posted by stormalong

... A few overnighters will add to your experience. Then get yourself a berth on a trip to Bermuda or the Bahamas. Do not buy a boat until you have done at least this.
...

It is a big step - don't trip.

I think that's an excellent idea; I've found a charter in the Bahamas that emphasizes instruction while aboard, which would be great experience.

There's two sides of the camp though... while the cost of the week-long charter would be a wise investment at $3500 ($2500 charter, $400 provisions, $600 airfare), I couldn't help but think to put that toward the boat. Plus, only mom and dad were allowed on this one, so it wouldn't be an accurate experience without all three of us on board.

If things don't work out, in a month or two, I could always resell. I doubt I'd lose $3500 if I had to put the boat back on the market. (I'm talking a $15k-$20k boat, by the way - yes, I'm sure we'd spend some money on outfitting, but we'd wait until we're comfortable with the lifestyle first).

The yacht club where I took classes constantly invites us to crew during rallies, but the boats are all dinghies. Great fun on the water, and yes, it's good experience, but I'd like to try my hand on a larger boat.

Can anyone recommend a charter or another way to get experience on a larger boat? I don't know of any sailors with larger vessels. I'm thinking I need to buy a trailer-sailor and start weekending with the family in it. However, that's just one more thing I got to sell when it's time to leave.

Calling Captain Ron! Seriously though, I think we'd run into a few folks at the marina where we'd be stationed who'd be happy to show us the ropes and help us get started.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Seriously though, I think we'd run into a few folks at the marina where we'd be stationed who'd be happy to show us the ropes and help us get started.

New boat owners eat up a lot of other peoples' time. Most boaters are happy to share thoughts and lend a hand when convenient, but new owners have so many questions and problems with which they need help that they often are overbearing and frankly a PITA.

Most sailors spend more time working on the boat than sailing it, so when they do sail it's precious time. Generally, the last thing they want to do is get on somebody else's boat, teach sailing, and worse have to fix stuff all afternoon. There are those in our marina (and not all new sailors) who cause everyone to hide below deck when they are there, because everyone knows they'll get roped into some darned project.

One way to learn about boating is charter with a captain onboard. He can tell you all about sailing a larger boat and if there are any mechanical issues you can work with him to learn while fixing.

Another option is the ASA schools. The 104+ (or whatever) classes look pretty good, all day on the water, live aboard, for a reasonable price. You won't learn fiberglas repair, but you will learn about the day-to-day part of being aboard. I've not taken any of the ASA classes, but was just looking at them and, at least on paper, seem to be thorough.

[Scout 30]

That might be the case when it comes to actually doing repairs but I think most sailors are happy to give advice. The problem is you won't know if the advice is good or not. I'd come to this forum with problems plus you can just search the internet. A lot of the time you can find a youtube video that will show you how to fix something.

[wyb2]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

New boat owners eat up a lot of other peoples' time. Most boaters are happy to share thoughts and lend a hand when convenient, but new owners have so many questions and problems with which they need help that they often are overbearing and frankly a PITA.

Most sailors spend more time working on the boat than sailing it, so when they do sail it's precious time. Generally, the last thing they want to do is get on somebody else's boat, teach sailing, and worse have to fix stuff all afternoon. There are those in our marina (and not all new sailors) who cause everyone to hide below deck when they are there, because everyone knows they'll get roped into some darned project.

OP - don't be scared by this opinion, it is certainly not universal. As new boat owners (we still are in relative terms), we kept our boat in the slip it was purchased in for the remainder of the season. Constantly had to (politely) fend off neighbors who wanted to chat so we could get projects done. They were very eager to offer advice while I had my head buried in some corner of the boat and they waited for their service tech to show up. No hard feelings at all, they were all very friendly and well meaning. The idea that I was taking up their time is comical though.

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Another option is the ASA schools. The 104+ (or whatever) classes look pretty good, all day on the water, live aboard, for a reasonable price. You won't learn fiberglas repair, but you will learn about the day-to-day part of being aboard. I've not taken any of the ASA classes, but was just looking at them and, at least on paper, seem to be thorough.

We did this, and it was a great intro to sailing and living aboard. I thought it was expensive, but I'm a cheapskate, I doubt you could get quite the same thing for much less. If you need some experience in a hurry, it's a good option.