Kids and Watches

[goboatingnow]

We don't cruise at night except to roust the flying fish for a scenic run.

Long anchor chain for the atlantic and other oceans then. !!!

Our standing orders are - if anything, wake up the skipper (on my boat - that's me), nomatterwhat. This applies to anybody on watch, no matter what age or competence level.

You mustn't get a wink then. Such general night orders are almost useless. You have to be far more specific. In my case I tailor it to the watch. Experienced crew get a lot of latitude.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

6 hours at night is a very very long watch. On a three person Crew I run three or four hour overlapping watches. Giving 5 hours of sleep

As to age that depends , but in general 14-16+ but there are many 10 year old better sailers then their parents. However it's the maturity to take decisions and also to know when not to, that really counts
Dave

I agree with you, 6 hours is way to long of a watch...especially in bad or cold weather. With three people I think 4 hours is long enough, and that gives them 8 hours off.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

There is so much variation in kids’ maturity and decision making skills that you can’t make a hard and fast rule on this.
Sleep deprivation is no good for anybody, least of all developing young brains.
Personally I wouldn’t put any of my kids on a night watch, but each to their own.
I suppose if they are a night owl, and feel confident and can be trusted then why not.
As for 6 hour watches I think that is too long for anyone to remain attentive without a break.

Very true.
It's mainly one of the kids that does night watch, he loves the peace at night and will often use the time to get ahead on school work, given how easy the boat is to sail it isn't like he has to sit at the helm the whole watch, he can go below for 10 mins or so most night without anything going wrong. He also has plenty of entertainment options at his disposal if he does get bored, be it his DS, PSP, DVD, books, puzzles etc.
Often I wake up through the night to find him hand helming the boat pushing it for best speed if he thinks he can do better than the auto pilot in given conditions, he loves doing this too for hours on end.. At the end of his watch he has something to eat then goes to bed, given he's deaf he can just turn off his implant and sleeps like a baby.
In the time they have been doing watches they have had cause to wake me a grand total of 4 times, I trust them not to take silly risks, I trust them to make course corrections or changes if needs be.
My daughter did a night watch last year recognised an atoll on the chart plotter as it went by, she decided she wanted to see it, she plotted a new course, altered course, the first I heard of it was when I woke up with the boat at anchor. in that case in my mind, she made a good decision for the right reasons it turned out to be one of the most fun and productive days we had in a long time.

[Dragon Lady]

That's impresive, I know a few kids like that and I believe they are the exception not the norm.
They are born sailors and potential world champions.
I hope you have them racing dinghies, there's a lot of potential there.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

That's impresive, I know a few kids like that and I believe they are the exception not the norm.
They are born sailors and potential world champions.
I hope you have them racing dinghies, there's a lot of potential there.

They sail Nacra's, they were sailing various dinghies, but they we easily winning every race they were in unless they put the boat over, Nacra's are a better challenge for them that are actually pushing their sailing development again.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by JJB

They sail Nacra's ...

Which model?
Nacra Sailing - Sports and Fun Catamarans

[JJB]

They have an F-18, but also sail 430's..

[Hannah on 'Rita T']

If he's getting ahead in his school work, or drawing, he or she isn't preserving his/her night vision. On my boat part of the duty of a night watch keeper is to guard his/her night vision. And I agree 6 hour watches are way too long for anyone. But I think mostly we aren't going to change your mind and you are proud of your kids. Good on ya. But make sure they have help tacking; no one should leave the cockpit when he/she is alone on deck.

[capn_billl]

They sound like teenagers. At one time a 14 year old was considered adult, (or nearly so). With growing up sailing, and several passages under their belt. It sounds like they are well capable of handling the boat. A boat is always safest with the most experienced person at the helm, but then a boat with 4 captains probably wouldn't sail far either.

How do you do weather checks? DO you have weather fax? An unanticipated storm, (or rarer crossing freighter that doesn't answer radio). Would be the main dangers I can think of.

I've read three stories in sailing blogs where a family lost the boat. 1. a teenage son went off course and ran aground, (not his fault, even a more experienced helmsman may have missed it, stemed from course miscalculation from captain). 2. & 3. Both had wife at helm 2. capsized in unexpected wind change, 3. Ran aground while fiddling with chartplotter.

I guess the moral of this is things do happen, and if one of your children were at the helm they would have to take responsibility for what could be extreme consequences. We tend to baby our children, that doesn't always serve them well as they get older, ( and still act as babies). My teenage son stays up half the night on land, so that is not so unusual. Good luck and fair winds.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

They sound like teenagers. At one time a 14 year old was considered adult, (or nearly so). With growing up sailing, and several passages under their belt. It sounds like they are well capable of handling the boat. A boat is always safest with the most experienced person at the helm, but then a boat with 4 captains probably wouldn't sail far either.

How do you do weather checks? DO you have weather fax? An unanticipated storm, (or rarer crossing freighter that doesn't answer radio). Would be the main dangers I can think of.

I've read three stories in sailing blogs where a family lost the boat. 1. a teenage son went off course and ran aground, (not his fault, even a more experienced helmsman may have missed it, stemed from course miscalculation from captain). 2. & 3. Both had wife at helm 2. capsized in unexpected wind change, 3. Ran aground while fiddling with chartplotter.

I guess the moral of this is things do happen, and if one of your children were at the helm they would have to take responsibility for what could be extreme consequences. We tend to baby our children, that doesn't always serve them well as they get older, ( and still act as babies). My teenage son stays up half the night on land, so that is not so unusual. Good luck and fair winds.

Hey Bill.
They are well capable, and don't take safety lightly, if they do need to leave the cockpit for any reason, they wear a harness as I do myself at night, we are also equipped with a man overboard system as a double safe.
Yes we have weather fax, for the most part that's how we keep track of the weather, but we also have sat Internet so if we need to we can use that as well.
I take your point a boat is always safest with the most experienced person at the helm, on nights it's very rough I will take the night watch myself, it usually goes off without a hitch, but there has been a number of hairy moments in rough weather.
As for any vessels that are in our general vicinity, once a radar contact is made we try to raise them first, if no luck we change course to get out of their way, that happens about once a week at night.
If the kids did run the boat onto a reef I would accept the responsibility for that, but with all the gadgets we have on board it really would be very hard to do that, they know how to use the electronics at times I think better than I do, and read what they are saying very well.
On the length of the shift, I have thought about chopping it to 4 hours, in the end the one of them that usually does it protested about it, because he likes doing it, at that he is never alone for too long, we all get up during the night to get water, go to the bathroom etc, we all go up and have a short chat with him, or for that matter whoever is on watch.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by Hannah on 'Rita T'

If he's getting ahead in his school work, or drawing, he or she isn't preserving his/her night vision. On my boat part of the duty of a night watch keeper is to guard his/her night vision. And I agree 6 hour watches are way too long for anyone. But I think mostly we aren't going to change your mind and you are proud of your kids. Good on ya. But make sure they have help tacking; no one should leave the cockpit when he/she is alone on deck.

I guess by night vision you are saying your own boat is in almost total darkness at night?
Our decks are quite nicely lit so you can see all of what is going on, it's not lit up like a christmas tree but bright enough to see all of what is going on without straining your eyes, in the cockpit where he does his work, is lit in much the same way.
As for tacking, that's done with electric winches if the need arises, there really isn't any major obstacle on the deck to prevent this happening in a way that requires further intervention.
Thank you for your kind words, I really do appreciate it

[barnakiel]

What do you mean by 'our deck is quite nice lit'?

Do you mean on a night passage, offshore? Or just when you are anchored or at a dock?

Our deck and cockpit are completely dark when sailing. The only lights are the red compass light and the depth instrument glow (used only inshore) and these are out of sight of the driver if they leave the helm position and sit / stand elsewhere.

I am a bit puzzled.

b.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

What do you mean by 'our deck is quite nice lit'?

Do you mean on a night passage, offshore? Or just when you are anchored or at a dock?

Our deck and cockpit are completely dark when sailing. The only lights are the red compass light and the depth instrument glow (used only inshore) and these are out of sight of the driver if they leave the helm position and sit / stand elsewhere.

I am a bit puzzled.

b.

LED's are recessed into the deck and in the cockpit, at night they are generally on, and enough to read by.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by JJB

LED's are recessed into the deck and in the cockpit, at night they are generally on, and enough to read by.

Unbelievable. (biased, IMHO and skipper specific)

Are you NOT concerned with next to nil night vision of the watch mate?

b.

[barnakiel]

Pompompom!

Not an easy thing easy to shock a monster!

But here cometh the kraken, and HE WILL take the crew out of the well lit cockpit - and into the dark, dark abyss ...

As Tennyson has had it, it will be the LIGHT (latter fire = LED) that will wake the kraken.

b.