Non-Sailor Looking For Advice!!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

This is actually an excellent idea. Motor yachts can be purchased cheap, and offer much more room with a much shorter learning curse.

On this we disagree. Most MY's of that size have 12vdc, 24vdc, 120vac and 240vac electrical systems, two generators five battery banks with 10 battery switches, multiple fuel tanks with all the attendant valving and extremely complicated mechanicals and hydraulics. These are either for highly technical people or those with a fat cheque book. Learning to maintain and service such a vessel has a much higher learning curve than you think.

[robgsailor]

I second Fore and Aft. There are a few naysayers who have provided several obstacles but nothing is unsurmountable if you put your heart and soul to the challenge.

If you are really keen and ready for a lifestyle change, that may be your path to a happier life.

I sailed into Sydney harbour last December and anchored next to a 43 Roberts Mauritius with kids all over the deck, 11 of them (last one born in the sailing life). They looked like the happiest bunch of kids I had ever seen. Get in touch with the Soetekouw family to find out how you can prepare yourself for the seachange.
https://thelargefamilyaroundtheworldadventure.com/

Good luck!

[TrentePieds]

And to add to what Boatpoker just said: Motor yachts of this magnitude were/are typically powered by a PAIR of 450HP diesels of the Detroit 8v71 kind with all their attendant complexities. Off the top of my head, I would think that a replacement engine installed would set you back about $120K.

The component weights of these beasts would also make DIY repairs difficult for an amatoor not already possessed of the requisite tools and lifting equipment. I can see a budget requirement of, say, fifty grand for tools and equipment you do not yet have, but without which you simply cannot do your own repairs.

Cranking out 900HP steadily is expensive. So to put some numbers on things for your sake, Jensen: If we throttle back to 600HP continuous output (70% throttle), then at a fuel consumption of .4 lbs/HP/hr we get a fuel consumption of 240 lbs/hr. At 8 lbs/gall that means 30 gal/hr. Around here, and in many other places, diesel fuel is US$1.20/gal. So to go the 10NM you would put behind you in an hour, you would burn $36 worth of fuel which equates to a cost of $3.60 per mile. To cross the forty NM of the Salish Sea from West Vancouver to Nanaimo (where the ferry runs) would cost you $120. The trip would take four hours. Now, if you go full bore, giving you a transit time of 3 hours and 20 minutes at 12 knots, your total fuel cost would be $180, so you'd be spending 60 bux to save forty minutes.

All that to make the point that unless a man has a SUBSTANTIAL passive income - reliable, steady income from other than employment - he should stay well away from motor vessels other than dinky ones!

TrentePieds

[Go Wildcats]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

.....

Here are the steps we came up with as a START so far:
• Drop weight down to 270 (minimum, 250 or less ideally)
• Be able to walk at least 2 miles non-stop
• Visit friend’s 40’ sailboat on nearby lake
• Reorganize spending/savings habits to make sailing the priority
(ie no major purchases that can’t come with us on a boat)

After my weight and health get to be less of an issue we’d then start moving through some other steps:
• Charter a boat for a week or so (make sure this isn’t something we’ll hate)
• Take a sailing course (ASA?) near us
• Find some crew opportunities for me (and maybe one of the teenagers) to gain hours and experience

.......

Enough though… what advice do you have for non-sailors looking to learn? Do these steps and timeframes seem reasonable? What have we overlooked? What are we too ignorant about to even question? Fill us in and help us out! Thanks!!

I think having goals is important. And I strongly believe in stretch goals. Good on ya for thinking long term. I think you have a solid plan in the works and I'm sure as you learn more and work toward the goal of sailing the seven seas, your plans will evolve as all do. The weight goal is a great place to start. Diet is the biggest key to losing weight. Add in yoga to help with the back. Begin reading and watching all things sailing. Read this site daily - all subforums as well! Ken has the bed side manner of a badger, but he generally has some of the best advice on here. Youtube is a great place to see some of the lifestyle you will need. Please keep in mind that most of what you see will be to make the life appealing. But some show both sides and are on a show string budget (Project Atticus and Sailing Zingaro). Others are on no budget (Zatara). Speaking of Zatara, they are family of 7. Six live on a 58' Privilege Catamaran, though started on a 50' monohull I believe. The father is overweight and does fine. I guess I would do the following:

In no particular order:
Lose weight and increase flexibility/movement and stamina.
Watch youtube sailing channels while on a treadmill/elliptical (there are so many - message me and i will send over a great list I subscribe to for mindless activity when traveling)
Peruse classified websites for boats - provides a scale of budget and size
Leverage this forum - soak up the knowledge - the badgers will pull no punches
Stay on top of the PTSD. There's a great group (Deep Sea Valkyries) that provides scuba outings for vets. There's another called Warrior Sailing for vets with disabilities. It may be encouraging for yourself to be apart of one or both groups.

Reassess the goal along the way and steps you are taking. And repeat.

Best of luck to you and your family.

[JensenJourney]

The VA Disability (100%) does provide passive income, but not at the level of affording a power yacht. I have a good friend with one (65 footer in Pacific Northwest/Alaska) that he uses every summer for several months. He was my first call when considering such a drastic shift in lifestyle. He, knowing me quite well, strongly discouraged that idea as unattainable barring a massive wealth change.


Re: YouTube sailing channels. I'm up to date on many of them. When the idea started forming for me I actually started with blogs. Read everything Bumfuzzle wrote up to finishing their circumnavigation, then Zero to Cruising. I mentioned the idea to a cousin at a funeral and he told me of Gone With the Wynns. After binging their shows I found Delos (binged), then SLV (binged), Zatara (binged), Project Atticus (binged), Sailing Uma (binged), Ran Sailing, MJ sailing, and sailing Saiorse. I would love to be able to find a craft for 0-$5000 and spend time fixing her up like many of those couples did... but at the size I need...


Re: the "badgers". I kind of laugh at the "it will be too hard" comments. Because NO ****! That's why I'm asking for advice from 'experts' … if it were going to be easy I wouldn't need help, would I? Even if it eventually turns out unattainable FOR ME, it is an achievable goal. It's like I'm the fat person at the gym, asking how the equipment works, and instead of offering advice you are laughing about how funny this will be to watch rather than offer advice. Really, no decent person does that. C'est La Vie I don't mind hearing were the rocks/reefs/difficulties are... that is what I've asked for afterall, but the "don't even bother trying" stuff is, well, what makes you a "badger".


Thanks for all the advice... keep it coming.

[Kenomac]

It always looks easier than it is in on the youtube sailing lifestyle videos. I thought youtube might have something to do with this thread, well enough of this nonsense for me, I live in the real world... not fantasy.

[JensenJourney]

"It always looks easier than it is in on the youtube sailing lifestyle videos." Yes, I'm sure it does! When you compress a weeks worth of life into a 10 minute clip, you largely are going to only show the highlights, not the mundane that makes it happen. And their videos always start with "we just bought a boat..." and none of what happened before hand. That was one of the reasons I asked what I have... because I'm no where ready to buy a boat but want to take whatever steps I can. But I definitely want somebody to stop me from taking steps in the wrong direction or wrong order.

One of my wife's first comments was "You do know that Eleyna doesn't come with the boat, right? That you have to take me along with you, and not one of these goddesses?" I acted surprised, sighed, and hung my head.

[Hoosierdoc]

OP, are you able to list the things in society that you’re trying to get away from? This is a huge leap into a very difficult lifestyle for a family situation such as yours. Is there way to relocate or change the current situation without such a drastic course correction?

We considered leaving Indiana for Florida two years ago. We REALLY wanted a change for many reasons. Then we realized that things probably would end up the same there, but with days off being more fun. In the end it wasn’t worth the upheaval in our personal and professional lives.

Or it was and we missed out

We’re focusing on how to do it, not why, and I think that’s more important this far out.

[Tingum]

Sounds like a very bad idea to me!

[two-rocks]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

but damn it, if I don’t make any bad decisions then I won’t have any good stories to tell later in life! So…



Fill us in and help us out! Thanks!!

Nine kids.....? Bad decisions?
You’re dreaming, back to reality. Parenting does not end at a magical date set by the government.
Never stepped foot on a sailboat? Sounds like parenting has not started, get off the couch, get a mountain bike, go skiing, climb a mountain, learn to scuba dive, etc.
Whatever you are running from CAN swim and will follow, what about the other 10? Are they running as well?

[TrentePieds]

Jensen: When I had to skive off to a meeting yesterday, and had to leave the second point I wanted to make unsaid, I was going to get onto something ABSOLUTELY fundamental to your prospects for success – the old saw that “money ain't everything, but it's sure as Hell a long way ahead of whatever it is that's in second place!”

IMO, no man should ever “invest” more money in a boat than he can walk away from still with a smile on his face. No man should ever dispose of this real estate, or borrow against it, to finance the acquisition and/or ownership of a boat. The reason for that is that boats are worthless!

As long as you own real estate, your wealth, whatever it might be expressed in dollars, will continue to increase. The reason for that is, as real estate salesmen like to say, that “they ain't makin' it no more”. Consider that in light of the population explosion: When I came to these shores in 1957 the population of the US was 172 million, now 60 years later, it is 327 million. It has nearly DOUBLED in 60 years! For my country, Canada, the numbers are respectively 16 million and 37 million. Canada's population is now 230% of what it was when I came here. But don't blame me ;-)! This growth in population numbers will continue at such a rate into the future, and more and more people will therefore be “bidding” for real estate driving prices higher and higher and ensuring that there will ALWAYS be a buyer for any given piece of RE. So whatever you do, DON'T substitute a boat of any kind for real estate.

Boats, on the other hand, are by now a dime a dozen due to some historic and economic circumstances that became apparent in the 1970s and the consequences of which we live with today. One of those consequences is that the world is full of boats that are rarely being used but are costly to keep. In consequence, supply exceeds demand in the boat market, unlike in the RE market where demand will ALWAYS exceed supply.

I bought our boat, a 40 year old one with a brand new standing rigging and canvas, for less than 10% of today's “replacement value”, i.e today's cost to construct. In my marina there is a 40 foot superb design by William Garden, a renowned Naval Architect, in EXCELLENT condition and already fully equipped to go world cruising. Its listing price is 10% of replacement value! 5 (FIVE)% if you count all the gear that's in her! The moral is that boat ownerships is ALWAYS, fiscally, a LOSING PROPOSITION! Know that when you lay your plans!

Know also that as derelict boats are beginning to litter marinas everywhere and moorage prices rise, boats are increasingly being abandoned in coves and bays everywhere and steps are being taken, by way of legislation, to make the owner of record responsible for the destruction and disposal of boats abandoned in such a manner. Therefore, the wise man must take disposal cost into account when he budgets for a boat and assumes ownership of it. In my case, disposal cost would amount to more than my acquisition cost. So be warned! In this very circumstance can you find the reason that the above mentioned world cruiser can be had for 10% of replacement cost. You do not EVER want to spend fifty grand on cutting up a boat and taking the bits to the landfill!

Well, enuff of that jeremiad:-)

But for your own sake, but even more for your family's sake, step very, very carefully when you consider the budget for what you want to do!

All the best,

TrentePieds

[winschwab]

I admire your ambition. Lots of mostly good and thoughtful advice from CF.

I had a PTSD vet buy my 45' houseboat sight unseen: I had described it accurately: sunk and refloated/no engines/no working gear/no tackle/no safety equipment, etc.,etc. He drove 500 miles and spent a week living on the boat painting the inside of the cabin with plans to "drive" the boat back up the Atlantic coast to Massachusetts. He didn't like my suggestion to have it hauled at a local marina and make it seaworthy. I tried to explain what might be involved in building motor mounts for outboards (the boat originally had outdrives-all removed) and all the other work that would be required to turn it back into a real boat. Nothing dissuaded him until I asked if he had any idea what the fuel would cost to "drive" to Massachusetts. $2000!!! He finally realized the it was time to wake up from the dream. I gladly gave him his money back. Sold it to a waterman who towed it away for use as a liveaboard.

I think your plan is a good one, just be flexible and willing to change the plan as it evolves. Best of luck!

[qwerme]

Originally Posted by JensenJourney

About us: I’m a 6 foot tall disabled Army veteran with PTSD issues, a bad back, and am way overweight. My wife is perfectly healthy and capable. We have 9 (yes, NINE) children at home now ranging in ages from 6 months up to 16 years old, all healthy, athletic, and willing. I suspect a couple might be moved out by the time we move through this list and make the move.

What you want to do is awesome and I want to see this on Youtube!

[SlyMcFLy]

Thank you for your service.

Hi from southern Costa Rica headed for Panama on my 1973 Formosa 41 Octopus Garden, with my wife Susy

We’ve sailed 2500 miles south and east since we left LaPaz MX 2 seasons ago

I started out 2 years ago at 285 lbs and 6’2” tall. I’ve lost 45 lbs since then. We eat 2 meals a day breakfast and lunch about 3 pm. We try to eliminate sugar and fat from the diet and really reduce snacks. Eat totally balanced fruit and veggies, carbs and meat. Lots of fish and chicken

None of my clothes fit. You can do it. Don’t worry too much about the weight if you can climb a ladder and walk. Lots of exercise in this life and if you don’t put sugary fat snacks on board you can’t eat them

We bought our boat in La Paz MX at 1/3 the price we’d pay in the US

We bought an old, classic, heavy, slow but comfortable boat in decent shape, sailed for a month around the Sea of Cortez, then returned to La Paz and added an autopilot and watermaker. Things that we needed, worked for 10 months and added about $10k in equipment. Paid $30k for the boat.

With all those kids you’ll have lots of crew. I’d look for something like a Formosa 51 or 54. Big strong old ketch you can get for $50 to $75 k in Mexico. US flagged of course.

You’ll need a big dinghy and a couple of kayaks, strong outboard, watermaker, autopilot, solar panels, etc

Most boats here thousands of miles from the US are older, ketch, crews of husband and wife in their golden years so you can do it if they can!

Learn Spanish, be able to fix everything on board including electrical and engine including outboard

Make sure you have an income, I’m retired gov and we thrive on a budget of $3k per month and are able to save which then goes towards travel inland. Money goes far anchored off a coconut beach and cooking, and living on board.

If you can get yourself to Panama City I’ll take you sailing to the Perlas in honor of your service to our country

Currently in Golfito, CR headed for Western Panama next week when all the repairs are complete and full of fuel. Water and supplies

[pufferfish]

My advice would be for all of you to crew as much as you can prior to committing - nothing beats practical experience. Perhaps for the kids to join a sailing club.

After meeting wheelchair bound sailors (bilateral above knee amputees) who sail single handed better than I do ablehanded I stopped believing physical handicaps being an absolute barrier towards sailing... and after sailing into the Arctic with four children aged 8 weeks to 8 years old I feel that kids often adapt quicker and easier to life on a boat than adults.

As others have suggested already - for that many people on board a monohull might be a more affordable and sustainable choice. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, and you can carry a hell of a lot more weight (think water and food, never entirely rely on a watermaker because they do fail). Also a lot more forgiving in terms of sailing mistakes when things get a bit rough. Admittedly, multi hulls offer much better speed and comfort when not overloaded, and in my personal opinion are more fun to sail. I am lucky enough to afford both - but when we go far offshore or family cruising, we go for the monohull almost every time for the reasons mentioned above.