What boat size for offshore with kids?

[akprb]

Bigger

Check TradeMe to know the market, a lot of big Ocean going monos end up in NZ. You're right, they do seem to sell. We sold our 50' cat down there, our friend his 53 Amel, plenty of others.

Bigger

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by akprb

Bigger

Check TradeMe to know the market, a lot of big Ocean going monos end up in NZ. You're right, they do seem to sell. We sold our 50' cat down there, our friend his 53 Amel, plenty of others.

Bigger

Speaking of Amel's.. that's a Marque you should seriously consider..

[stillbuilding]

Water storage as a reserve could be managed cheaply by having a couple of flexible tanks on the floor of the children's cabins. Robust enough for the kids to walk/jump on and very cheap.

I am using a 3000 litre tank on a passageway floor! Cost $200!!!

[stillbuilding]

Anything can be done. Have seen family of 5 on a 34' mono for a year.

With 6-7 people I would go as large as possible and Reef down as needed sooner. Still likely to be faster - purely water line length issues.

[Joli]

We've found bigger boats are easier to sail, faster, better motion in a seaway but require more forethought. Ours is 61', 65,000#'s, has an airdraft of 93' and kites in the 4,000 sq ft range, it's all manageable but don't get caught with to much up in too much breeze or you risk loosing the sail or worse. Upwind in 40 true we can carry a #3, no main so the safety margin is pretty big but still be careful because the loads go up very quickly on a big boat. When in doubt reef, stand off or wait for a better day.

[stillbuilding]

With so many on board you will be thinking well ahead and sailing conservatively anyway so bigger would be my choice. Comfortable enough so no one is burning to leave so strategic delay is no big deal.

[jgw50]

Awesome question and very applicable to my situation (leave ~18months, married with 3 kids under 10, cruising for 12-18 months)

It sure seems like you can get a lot of larger mono for the money right now in the Med. If the market is receptive in NZ then as long as you can sail it safely, it seems like a larger boat wouldn't cost much more than the smaller boat (maintenance and refit aside).

I think furling mainsails and conservative sailing can help make a bigger boat safe to sail with two adults with the caveat that conservative decision making is the key (as it is on any size boat.)

I've done offshore races on a 60ft boat with hank on sails with 13 racers onboard, and also bareboated a 52 footer with a furling sail with no other sailers aboard. The 52 footer was easier to run by myself than being one of 4 people on watch on the bigger boat.

As long as the furling gear is working (critical) then there is no reason someone with average physical ability could not reef both sails at night without going outside the cockpit. If something goes wrong on the foredeck, I fail to understand the real world difference between a 54 footer and a 45 footer.

All the loads are big, all the sails are big, they all heel the same. Sure, a broached 54 footers spinnaker sheet pulls harder than a 45 footer when its broaching, but the loads are all huge compared to what a human can pull. They both just need easing of sheets, cutting of lines, crapping of pants, etc.

I think you could conservatively sail a big boat at the same speed you would aggressively sail a smaller boat. In this case I think the bigger boat would be safer.

Check out "Sailing Zatara" on Youtube. An inexperienced family bought a 2013 Oceanis 55 in Ft. Lauderdale and set off. They do not look like extreme sailers and do not have vast amounts of experience, but they seem to be getting along just fine and enjoying it at the same time. I believe they are enrout the the Galapagos right now. They are on a huge boat by most cruising with kids standards but electric winches and furling gear make them appear to have it all in control. I'm sure there are discussions on this forum from when they first started discussing how over their heads they were, buuut so far so good.

P.S. The 60 footer I spent a summer sailing on was "American Promise" which was single handed around the world in the 80's solo, non-stop. The guy who did it (Dodge Morgan) credited the revolutionary use of a furling mainsail as being what allowed him to do it. When I was sailing on the boat, it had the rig changed out to a standard main and hanked headsail after being sunk in the Chesapeake. Bottom line is properly working furling gear allows little people to control big sails.

[B00B00]

Yeah I have been following the Sailing Zatara. At first I thought it was going to be a disaster and waited for ther trainwreck but its actually been good to watch and see the kids adapting and changing. They seem to have it pretty well under control.
The Totem blog is also very interesting.

Its a good point someone made about the fact that the bigger boat will not need to be pushed as hard for the same speed. That makes it even more comfortable and probably a lot easier on the boat too. 7-9kts is pretty damn fast for a 40ft cruiser but a 54fter would eat that for breakfast even with reduced sail.

What kind of daily milage are people generally getting while sailing comfortably with family on board?
I have done some big miles on race boats but so far have only done a lot of coastal stuff with the family on board so havent really worked out what kind of 24hr milage to expect.

JGW50, I have also done plenty of big boat offshore stuff, both racing and cruising and as you say there is a HUGE difference between a well setup cruising boat and a racing boat. This is why I like the idea of the self tacking furling jib.
I hope to not have to leave the cockpit much offshore unless I have too.

[deluxe68]

I like this boat, the layout would be good for 6 people.

1990 Swan 53 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[B00B00]

Yeah cool boat but too old for me with not enough resale value in NZ.

[svseachange]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

Anything can be done. Have seen family of 5 on a 34' mono for a year.

Agreed.

We spent about a month cruising with a Bavaria 38 with three kids on board and they were very happy. They are now in New Zealand half way through a circumnavigation.

We spent time with another kid boat, a 26 footer with three kids along the intracoastal. They seemed happy.

We have one kid a 42 footer with a three cabin layout. It is very roomy and comfortable. We also spent a year with one kid on a traditional 34 footer. We found that too tight.

There was a family of four we spent time with in the Bahamas on Leopard 38. Seemed like a luxurious setup to us at the time.

We knew another family of four with two teenage kids who sailed very comfortably from the east coast of the US to Alaska on an old Morgan 52.

Every family has their own personal sweet spot.

[Sandero]

Interesting the skipper of sailing Zitara doesn't wear a seat belt!

[Hobie_ind]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Speaking of Amel's.. that's a Marque you should seriously consider..

We loved our Super Maramu, but I get the impression you're looking for newer and honestly I don't think the layout would be the best for you. Workable for the 3 younger kids, but gets tight if you take in any crew. The Amel 54 has a potentially much better layout.

A couple of additional thoughts come to mind for consideration:
- A lot of the sailing will be deep downwind (120-160+deg) or even dead downwind. Given that, it amazed me how many boats we saw over the past two years that had really poorly setups for downwind work. Poles that required at least 2 people to get off the deck and get rigged (and were almost impossible with any rolling from the swell), spinnakers that they couldn't set or douse easily (or wouldn't use), etc, etc. Given how much you'll use those systems, I would argue that being able to easily set up poles and downwind sails shorthanded is as much of a safety consideration as drogues and storm sails (possibly more since you'll likely never use the latter with good planning)
- You probably have, but I'd be considering a 40'-45' cat for what you're proposing. We had a few friends buy cats in the Med and US and take them to NZ and Oz. From a $ point of view, I think they did better. To me it certainly seemed to be more demand for newer cats there than monos (particularly in Oz).
- Exchange strikes me as the biggest risk. Not much you can do about it, but the bigger/more expensive the boat the bigger the risk. We got lucky with the boat this time, but I've been burned the other way a number of times also. (CDN/USD and AUD/CDN)

Anyway....good luck! I'm jealous. We loved doing it with our kids and don't regret it for a second.

Cheers,
Mark

[Rustam]

Originally Posted by B00B00

Whats everyones thoughts on maximum boat sizes for ocean passages with short crew an famiily onboard?



We will be buying a boat in Europe in a few months with the intention of sailing it half way around the world back to NZ with 2 of us and 3 kids (5, 7 and 9) and most likley some extra crew for the big trips.

I think we really need a minimum of about 45ft to accomodate everyone comfortably (and do schoolwork ect) but there are also plenty of 50-54fters out there that can be purchased for not a huge amount more money and are all fully setup for offshore and look to be ready to go (obviously im going to view before buying and make sure there are not too many hidden massive costs).

Money is not a huge problem for the trip, we are not wealthy at all but are selling the house and done pretty well out of it (auckland house market - over doubled our money in 5 years....) so will have a handy budget for the trip. The plan is to sell the boat after the trip to recover as much of the money as possible then settle back into shore based life or do it all over again... Boats seem to be worth a fair bit more in NZ that the med so the difference will help us alot in the end (note: its not a money making venture but more a way to have an epic gap year without it costing us everything!)

Just trying to get my head around what the best plan of attack is.



Benefits with a bigger boat is speed (shorter passages, dodging weather systems) and comfort, space, storage ect.

Downsides are initial cost, running cost and boat handling.

Im sure the wife and I can generally handle the boat OK (plenty of sailing experence between us) but extra crew would be a benefit for the longer passages as the kids actually take up a bit of time as well. Im sure the kids will be helpful at some stage but right now they are more of a hinderance...

Take out the initial cost of getting the boat ready (sails, safety gear, motor service ect) what do you think the running cost extras would be for a 50+fter against a 45fter for an 18 month passage. Remember that we will be on anchor most of the time rather than berthing (carribbean/ Pacific). Sure we will have to berth occasionally (some parts of the Med) but its a pretty small overall cost in the grand scheme of things.



I know the panama canal is quite a bit more expensive for bigger boats, haulouts will also be horrendous, any other downsides of going bigger that im missing?



The Hanse 540 looks pretty good, plenty of space, reasonbly fast and a self tacking jib so easy to sail. Or the Dufour 525 but they have a shorter mast with overlapping genoas so a bit more of a handful.

There are also plenty of hanse 531's around that look Ok for offshore but resale wouldnt be as good.

Any thoughts on these boats?



Originally we were looking at Dufour 455's but think we can stretch to something bigger and faster.



Any advice appreciated.

I thought you're reading my mind))) I'm about to do the same trip in 3-4 months with 18 months old daughter and my wife. We are from Napier! Great to see people with exactly same ideas.

[B00B00]

Fantastic.
Lets catch up mate and work together on this then. PM sent.