catalina keels

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

You do know, I’m sure, …..that it was Australia’s 12 meter that took the cup from Conners and were the first non American boat to win the Americas Cup.

... beating Dennis Connor, with their Wing Keeled "Australia II", in 1983.
Conner won the Cup back, from Australia, in 1987, with “Stars & Stripes”, a 60' rigid wing sailed catamaran.

[BlindHog]

In the SE they were popular due to the shallower draft. The only thing I will add is that my dad had a C30 in the late 80's early 90's with a winged keel and after a hurricane the boat was standing straight upright in someone's yard, completely unscathed. Can't do that with a fin keel!

[NormanMartin]

Shallow water over here. There are some deep water cruising areas in Maine, Narragansett Bay and Long Island Sound. Everywhere else all the way down into the Bahamas is thin water.
Norm
Cape Cod

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

Anyone know why 90% of the catalinas sold in New England have a wing keel? The fin keels have better control and point upwind better. Does the wing keel add more drag? I suppose it means more tacking and since the rudder is much deeper you need to be careful that you don't ground. The catalina 34 hull speed is about 7.3 but does anyone know if it is slower with a wing keel?
Thanks!

That’s Catalina’s Shoal Draft kell.

[MicHughV]

A winged keel only means you'll run aground in 5' of water instead of 6'.

Trying to get a winged keel boat of a sandbar is no easy feat, as heeling it over will just dig one wing deeper into the sand.

Fad or design ??? My vote is for fad

[Happ]

You are so right about digging in. You are 100% correct about getting it off a sand bar. YOU CANNOT HEAL THE BOAT OVER! You have to pull or push it from the bow or stern to free it from a sand bar.

Newer shoal draft designs have a torpedo shaped appendage at the bottom for the additional weight required for stability.

[sfbaysailor]

Trying to pull your winged keel off of a sandbar from the bow will only result in burying it just that much further. Best to pull it out in reverse from the stern using a bridle.

[jjjacq]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

After the wing keel was introduced in America's Cup racing they may have become a bit of a fad. The keel worked on Dennis Connor's 12 Meter, he won after all, but maybe not so much on others.

Dennis Conner lost. Australia II was the one with the winged keel

[Shanachie]

TowboatUS's strategy with winged keels in western Florida seems to be creating a bridle with bow and stern lines, which enables the captain to heel the boat a little while moving forward.


The wing keel moves through the sand on an edge rather than with the anchor shape that the keel has when flat.


I got off an uncharted sandbar recently by hoisting sail and heeling the boat over a little. Of course, it helped that there was a small craft advisory up.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Shoshana

Anyone know why 90% of the catalinas sold in New England have a wing keel? The fin keels have better control and point upwind better. Does the wing keel add more drag? I suppose it means more tacking and since the rudder is much deeper you need to be careful that you don't ground. The catalina 34 hull speed is about 7.3 but does anyone know if it is slower with a wing keel?

Thanks!

It was a fad for a while following Australia’s victory in the America’s Cup.

The wing keel did 2 things it gave a very slight hydrodynamic advantage and it lowered the center of mass of the ballast which also gave a very slight advantage.

In production boats the wing keel lowers the center of mass which means that the keel can be shallower for the same or slightly decreased ballast.

I believe that there are areas in New England and the ICW where decreased draft is a significant selling point.

The “Hi-tech” aspect and the decreased draft were marketing advantages. Eventually the target market realized that it did not provide a performance advantage for racer-cruisers and wing-keels faded away.

They are still used on purpose built racing boats.

[sfbaysailor]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

TowboatUS's strategy with winged keels in western Florida seems to be creating a bridle with bow and stern lines, which enables the captain to heel the boat a little while moving forward.


The wing keel moves through the sand on an edge rather than with the anchor shape that the keel has when flat.


I got off an uncharted sandbar recently by hoisting sail and heeling the boat over a little. Of course, it helped that there was a small craft advisory up.

Hoisting sail will sometimes work, have used it myself, but it only works if you’ve had a soft landing and you’re certain that the course ahead is navigable. I’d much rather prefer to retrace my route than have TowBoatUS, or anyone else, power me forward not knowing what lies ahead.

[ibsurfun]

My best guess would be shallow water in nearby areas but I'm on the west coast so it's just a guess but I'm sure it's been said before.

[Shanachie]

Originally Posted by sfbaysailor

Hoisting sail will sometimes work, have used it myself, but it only works if you’ve had a soft landing and you’re certain that the course ahead is navigable. I’d much rather prefer to retrace my route than have TowBoatUS, or anyone else, power me forward not knowing what lies ahead.

The problem with retracing your route and going stern first is that you will break your rudder. Going forward, the keel cuts a path for the rudder.


In Florida, almost all groundings are soft. The reefs are clearly marked, and you seriously would have to be not paying attention to hit one.



The path to deeper water often is apparent. Either you're on the edge of a channel or you've hit a finger of sand that has extended into a navigable channel.






The tow pros also will sound the area and select a path before they pull you off.

[MicHughV]

The modern version of the winged keel is the bulb, not always in a torpedo shape, but nonetheless, an added appendage to the bottom of a keel.
Usually only seen on a " shoal draft" version of a sister boat with a full depth fin keel. but typically the rudder is not modified, meaning that the rudder often extends deeper than the shoal keel.
A dumb idea if there ever was one.
I feel the sailboat manufacturer's are catering to a perceived buying public's needs and desires, rather than any other implied value.