Catalina 445

[Peregrine1983]

I had never given Catalinas much thought... Probably because I believed what I read on forums like this one about them not being "bluewater..." whatever that means.

But after 6000nm cruising my Pearson 424 I know what I want in a boat and I must say I was absolutely blown away by the Catalina 445 at the Annapolis show last weekend.

I crawled all over that boat for more than two hours, stuck my head in every bilge compartment and nook and cranny. From battery bank capacity, to the electrical system, to the shaft drive, to storage, to tankage, to the Solent rig, watertight crash box in the bow, to the aft port work room that doubles as a berth, to the general accessibility of everything important... it just seemed like a fabulously well thought out boat for my current mission (summer cruises to New England) and future mission (living aboard, cruising the Caribbean and beyond.)

It's solid glass to the waterline and solid glass around every penetration point. The mast is not keel stepped, but it's all metal-to-metal with a compression post. It seemed quite solidly built to me. Not to mention the huge self draining cockpit, princess seats, dual redundant steering systems... I wouldn't hesitate to get offshore in that thing.

Anyone out there living aboard and cruising a Catalina 445?

[Peregrine1983]

I'd really love to hear about sailing performance with the wing keel version. If anyone has polars I'd love to check them out. Couldn't seem to track any down with a google search.

I would probably opt for either boom furling or old fashioned lazy jacks over the in-mast furler.

[George_SD]

No experience with a new Catalina, but experience with new Beneteau. I think they are all similar these days for the most part. Yes, they can go off-shore and will be just fine provided you set it up to your requirements for safety and comfort.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by George_SD

No experience with a new Catalina, but experience with new Beneteau. I think they are all similar these days for the most part. Yes, they can go off-shore and will be just fine provided you set it up to your requirements for safety and comfort.

Actually, they are far dissimilar. Here's why:

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

I crawled all over that boat for more than two hours, stuck my head in every bilge compartment and nook and cranny. From battery bank capacity, to the electrical system, to the shaft drive, to storage, to tankage, to the Solent rig, watertight crash box in the bow, to the aft port work room that doubles as a berth, to the general accessibility of everything important... it just seemed like a fabulously well thought out boat for my current mission (summer cruises to New England) and future mission (living aboard, cruising the Caribbean and beyond.)

I have owned my C34 for 25 years. I can attest to Catalinas having excellent access to each and every part of the boat. Excellent.

I recall having a Beneteau bareboat charter in the early 90s. I asked how & where to check the oil. After the staff member showed me how I'd have to completely remove all the aft cabin cushions to do so, we agreed that for the week we'd be away it probably wasn't worth doing daily. Since this bareboat was the same size as my boat at home, I noodled around a lot more during our cruise. I found the extensive use of interior panels was a tremendous maintenance headache. To access almost anything, even just to trace wires, panels had to be removed. And then, of course, replaced. The engine oil access or lack thereof, I noted above, where on my boat the builder simply put a small door on a side bulkhead - open door, instant dipstick access. The same was true for primary fuel filter and battery access.

They are all not alike.

Ever since the early days of building bigger boats, with the C30, then the C36, my 1986 C34, and the newer later 5 Series boats, Catalina has included feedback from owners, and guess what the first feedback was? Access.

Catalina got it right.


I think you'll find Catalina hardware is bigger for identical sized boats, too.

[GreenWave]

I have been on a Catalina 445 at dock. Lovely boat.


I own a Catalina 470. Solid as a rock and I selected this model after looking at IP, Hunter, Beneteau and Jenneau. Catalina beats them all across the factors that seem to matter to you.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

It's solid glass to the waterline and solid glass around every penetration point. The mast is not keel stepped, but it's all metal-to-metal with a compression post. It seemed quite solidly built to me. Not to mention the huge self draining cockpit, princess seats, dual redundant steering systems... I wouldn't hesitate to get offshore in that thing.

?

You just described almost every contemporary boat there is.

Never owned a 445 but one of the guys at our local marina recently sold one after just a year or so of ownership and using it locally along the Florida coast and Bahamas during which he had a keel separation issue. It may be a great live-aboard but there are more important considerations.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

You just described almost every contemporary boat there is.

Thanks for your reply, but you are incorrect. New Hanse, Beneteau, and Jeanneau hulls are fully balsa cored and they are a very large portion of the contemporary monohull market. I believe Bavarias are fully foam cored.

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Never owned a 445 but one of the guys at our local marina recently sold one after just a year or so of ownership and using it locally along the Florida coast and Bahamas during which he had a keel separation issue. It may be a great live-aboard but there are more important considerations.

Do you have any more detail on this? I'd love to hear what exactly the keel issue was.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

I have been on a Catalina 445 at dock. Lovely boat.


I own a Catalina 470. Solid as a rock and I selected this model after looking at IP, Hunter, Beneteau and Jenneau. Catalina beats them all across the factors that seem to matter to you.

Greenwave, do you have the deep or shoal draft 470? How do you feel the light wind performance is on the 470?

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Thanks for your reply, but you are incorrect. New Hanse, Beneteau, and Jeanneau hulls are fully balsa cored and they are a very large portion of the contemporary monohull market. I believe Bavarias are fully foam cored.

I’d be surprised if that is true. My son has owned both a Jenneau and a a Bene and neither had core below the WL. Only topsides core. Similar to most other designs which is why I said this is a moot point. You might want to revisit your assumption.

Do you have any more detail on this? I'd love to hear what exactly the keel issue was.

I’ll ask next time I see him and report back.

[Peregrine1983]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I’d be surprised if that is true. My son has owned both a Jenneau and a a Bene and neither had core below the WL. Only topsides core. Similar to most other designs which is why I said this is a moot point. You might want to revisit your assumption.




I’ll ask next time I see him and report back.

It's not assumption. You can even watch Beneteau lay their balsa below the waterline here - https://youtu.be/slPuxZZ8orc?si=VSApNytX8vn9T9Ld&t=93

Maybe your son had older boats. Not sure about the older ones.

Here is Hanse's hull diagram halfway down - https://www.hanseyachtsag.com/hanse/...d/engineering/

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

It's not assumption. You can even watch Beneteau lay their balsa below the waterline here - https://youtu.be/slPuxZZ8orc?si=VSApNytX8vn9T9Ld&t=93

Maybe your son had older boats. Not sure about the older ones.

Here is Hanse's hull diagram halfway down - https://www.hanseyachtsag.com/hanse/...d/engineering/

The two links you reference both indicate cored hull/ topsides above the WL, just like virtually every other contemporary boat manufacturer. It would make so sense to build a boat with core below and not above.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Greenwave, do you have the deep or shoal draft 470? How do you feel the light wind performance is on the 470?

I have the wing keel shoal draft though it is still 6 feet+ when loaded.


She performs very good in light air less than 110 and actually points much better than I ever expected. Downwind is her weakness - at least on my config. A pole or an Asym would help. I have neither at present.

[TheWildDingo]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

You just described almost every contemporary boat there is.

Never owned a 445 but one of the guys at our local marina recently sold one after just a year or so of ownership and using it locally along the Florida coast and Bahamas during which he had a keel separation issue. It may be a great live-aboard but there are more important considerations.

Can you provide the specifics on this? As someone looking at Catalinas, I'd be interested to know the details. Thanks!

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by TheWildDingo

Can you provide the specifics on this? As someone looking at Catalinas, I'd be interested to know the details. Thanks!

He is out of the country but texted me in response to this question. Although lacking details or the results of a forensic examination, 2 aft bolts exhibited stress fracturing gave way. He said didn’t know cause but ruled out hitting anything or grounding.

Might be a “one-off” incident but was enough to convince him to walk away.

[FuturePrimitive]

Interesting, I poked around the Catalinas too and I came away a little unimpressed. Fuel tankage seemed inadequate for a liveaboard/cruiser. But what really caught me off-guard was that it appears they changed their port/sb chainplate and stay arrangements and they seem... less robust to me. Can anyone else provide more info on these changes? I'm not an expert but when I followed the stays down into the hull (I opened the lockers and traced everything as best I could) they didn't seem to be attached to anything substantial, like a bulkhead or stringer like I expected, just to a relatively thin section of fiberglass perpendicular to the hull.

That said, I am a bit of Catalina fanboy, I "grew up" sailing Catalinas on the great lakes, my parents had a C22 and C30, both 80s boats, they were great and neither gave us any trouble at all. All of the older Catalinas I've been on and including the ones I saw at Annapolis 2016 all seemed very robust with stout hardware so I was a little disappointed when looking at the new ones.