Would you choose an Endeavorcat 34 or Gemini 105mc to cross the Atlantic?

[MultiCountryDon]

Either one would be fine for the crossing if properly prepared.
In this case that means loaded onto a ship.
Good for coastal cruising. Ocean crossing not so much.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by smj

The OP asked which of those 2 cats people would recommend, I said neither......on topic. The OP also stated these 2 cats were in his budget, I mentioned others that may be in his budget and better suited for the purpose....on topic.
Out of the 12 posts on this thread you have 4, none of your posts address the thread.....of topic.

[LeeV]

To stay on topic: neither, and have sailed both.

My Condor 40 and Corsair 36 were great trimarans, and we loved sailing coastal, but I’d not sail either transatlantic, even though the former was built and prepped for the OSTAR.

I think the Toni’s is ion for the Gemini was as close to perfection right where he built them, on the Chesapeake Bay. It may be the best gunkholing boat ever built, and the Bay and the Bahamas are perfect for it. IMHO

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by LeeV

I think the Toni’s is ion for the Gemini was as close to perfection right where he built them,

Can this be translated into english................??

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Can this be translated into english................??

Your tact notwithstanding, I apologize most profusely for the iOS auto correct messing around where it should not; hopefully, this tablet will fare better.

The observation I was making was that when Tony and Sue designed and started building the Gemini not far from where my Condor was built, his vision created a boat that was close to perfection for its design - a boat easily handled, able to get into shallows not accessible to most other boats it’s size, with a warm interior and comfort.

Spellchecked.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by LeeV

Your tact notwithstanding, I apologize most profusely for the iOS auto correct messing around where it should not; hopefully, this tablet will fare better.

And so, I will apologize to you.

However, will not apologize to naysayers that say this boat is not capable of going where you want it to go.............

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by Davy J

Yawn..........

In this thread we will get opinions from people that have never owned either boat or even sailed one........

Here you go:

https://vimeo.com/5595748

Davy J... Like the downwind rig. I've crossed oceans using a pair of genoas, one either side but didn't have a pole. The furthest away from dead downwind I could get was 140 degrees if there was a reasonable amount of wind but only 150 in lighter winds. Always thought I'd use a pole on one side if I did it again. Do you know what angle you could make with one side poled out?

[SalingSue]

Amel Santorin if it were me.

Cats are cool to play in the Bahamas, but more serious work I like a mono.

To each their own. Gemini seems a little less of a floating condo.

[Davy J]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

Davy J... Like the downwind rig. I've crossed oceans using a pair of genoas, one either side but didn't have a pole. The furthest away from dead downwind I could get was 140 degrees if there was a reasonable amount of wind but only 150 in lighter winds. Always thought I'd use a pole on one side if I did it again. Do you know what angle you could make with one side poled out?

The boat in the video is using a poled out screecher. My boat is not equipped with that.

However, I do use a whisker pole on the genoa in heavy winds, in light winds we break out an asymmetric spinnaker. It has a moveable tack, which allows all kinds of angles, including slightly going upwind.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by LeeV

The observation I was making was that when Tony and Sue designed and started building the Gemini not far from where my Condor was built, his vision created a boat that was close to perfection for its design - a boat easily handled, able to get into shallows not accessible to most other boats it’s size, with a warm interior and comfort.

Spellchecked.

You do realize, it's a British design (ie: for the waters around Britain) and he later moved to America.

Lots of Gemini's have crossed oceans.

Just like any other boat go thru and make sure everything is in good shape before departing and sail conservatively and you should be fine.

While we've not crossed oceans, we've owned both a Gemini and Catalac 10m. We would take a Gemini in a heartbeat over the Catlac or Prouts.

The slamming on a Gemini is only an issue in short steep waves when you go straight into them. Those are typically found on bays, not the open ocean. Slow down or bear off and it largely goes away.

Not familiar enough with the Endeavor 34 to talk about ocean crossings but we would love one for coastal cruising. Immensely comfortable living platform.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Lightweight build, difficult to move around on the deck. Try going from the cockpit to the bow and notice how you have to thread your way past the rigging. This among other things was pointed out to me by a gem owner.

Yes, cats aren't built with 2" thick solid fiberglass. Never had an issue with structural strength. What it is prone to is cosmetic spider cracks in the gelcoat.

Never had any issues getting to the bow on ours. I have size 13 shoes (big feet for our European friends).

Threading your way past the rigging translates as having handholds...a good thing.

[smj]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You do realize, it's a British design (ie: for the waters around Britain) and he later moved to America.



Lots of Gemini's have crossed oceans.



Just like any other boat go thru and make sure everything is in good shape before departing and sail conservatively and you should be fine.



While we've not crossed oceans, we've owned both a Gemini and Catalac 10m. We would take a Gemini in a heartbeat over the Catlac or Prouts.



The slamming on a Gemini is only an issue in short steep waves when you go straight into them. Those are typically found on bays, not the open ocean. Slow down or bear off and it largely goes away.



Not familiar enough with the Endeavor 34 to talk about ocean crossings but we would love one for coastal cruising. Immensely comfortable living platform.

The original Gemini 3000 not the 105 was taken from the old British Aristocat mold, totally different boats including bridgedeck clearance.
You must have owned a different Gemini than ours as it would slam on all points of sail, even in a protected Anchorage with 10-15 kts of wind.
Tony Smith was known to tout the Gemini as a coastal cruiser and not a blue water boat, maybe that changed with the 105? But I believe he did state “never again” after his Atlantic crossing.
Yes there have been Gemini’s that have crossed oceans and there will probably be more that will do so, but are they designed and built as Water boats">blue water boats? There are better cats in this price range to cross oceans but probably no better cat in this price range for shallow water coastal cruising.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by smj

The original Gemini 3000 not the 105 was taken from the old British Aristocat mold, totally different boats including bridgedeck clearance.
You must have owned a different Gemini than ours as it would slam on all points of sail, even in a protected Anchorage with 10-15 kts of wind.
Tony Smith was known to tout the Gemini as a coastal cruiser and not a blue water boat, maybe that changed with the 105? But I believe he did state “never again” after his Atlantic crossing.
Yes there have been Gemini’s that have crossed oceans and there will probably be more that will do so, but are they designed and built as blue water boats? There are better cats in this price range to cross oceans but probably no better cat in this price range for shallow water coastal cruising.

We had a 3400 model and no slamming issues except when going straight into short steep waves. We know lots of people with 105s and it's similar other than the ledge slapping which isn't the same as slamming.

Tony was talking about doing an ocean crossing on a small boat in general, not specific to the Gemini. This has been taken out of context by some.

We can't say if there are "better" boats until we define "better". No reason a properly maintained Gemini can't be expected to take you safely across oceans.

We've owned a Catlac 10m also (one of the proposed alternatives), we wouldn't feel any more comfortable in tough conditions in her vs the Gemini. In fact, there are aspects we would find worse, such as the steep tall steps down into the hulls.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You do realize, it's a British design (ie: for the waters around Britain) and he later moved to America.

Lots of Gemini's have crossed oceans.

Just like any other boat go thru and make sure everything is in good shape before departing and sail conservatively and you should be fine.

While we've not crossed oceans, we've owned both a Gemini and Catalac 10m. We would take a Gemini in a heartbeat over the Catlac or Prouts.

The slamming on a Gemini is only an issue in short steep waves when you go straight into them. Those are typically found on bays, not the open ocean. Slow down or bear off and it largely goes away.

Not familiar enough with the Endeavor 34 to talk about ocean crossings but we would love one for coastal cruising. Immensely comfortable living platform.

Of course, but when I met him, he was building on the Chesapeake, which I consider the best possible cruising grounds for the boat at that time.

[contrail]

Thanks for the video, Davy J. I knew it existed, but had never seen it or looked for it. Very interesting and the Gemini did pretty well.