Liability-only insurance for a 1979 Morgan 461 sailboat...

[Shaneesprit]

Sorry I should of added an example
I drive a porsche 911
Classic insurance 4000miles limited policy £1000
Insurance for business use 20,000miles £380
Happy me

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by CoryW

Florida boats looking for liability should be able to get coverage from highseaslowrates.com

Who is the actual underwriter of that coverage?

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Shaneesprit

Often Liability only is more expensive then fully Comp
As the insurance companies see you as irresponsible, so more likely to cause a claim. Even if the opposite is true

On what fact do you base that statement? Are you an insurance professional?
(I am)

I suspect that you are comparing the high liability rate of one company against the low full coverage rate of another. To make a fair comparison of rates, you must compare two quotes, one for full coverage and the other for liability only from the same company for the same boat and the same owner. I've never seen a liability only quote for the same owner-same boat that was higher than a full coverage quote.

Some liability quotes that you've seen may be higher than what you were expecting due to minimum premiums. It's just not worth it to the underwriters to go to the trouble of doing the underwriting, survey review, setting up the policy in their accounting system, & issuing the policy and taking on the risk of third party claims such as a collision, oil spill or salvage situation for a few hundred dollars. The amount of behind the scenes work for a liability only policy is almost the same as for a full coverage policy. Many underwriters are pulling back from writing liability only coverage for these reasons. When you have fewer choices, then market forces drives the rate up. But again, if you ask any company that you already have a liability only quote from for a full coverage quote, the full coverage quote will be more. I just wanted to make it clear that they are not charging more for liability only policies than for full coverage, as you asserted

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

On what fact do you base that statement? Are you an insurance professional?
(I am)

I suspect that you are comparing the high liability rate of one company against the low full coverage rate of another. To make a fair comparison of rates, you must compare two quotes, one for full coverage and the other for liability only from the same company for the same boat and the same owner. I've never seen a liability only quote for the same owner-same boat that was higher than a full coverage quote.

Some liability quotes that you've seen may be higher than what you were expecting due to minimum premiums. It's just not worth it to the underwriters to go to the trouble of doing the underwriting, survey review, setting up the policy in their accounting system, & issuing the policy and taking on the risk of third party claims such as a collision, oil spill or salvage situation for a few hundred dollars. The amount of behind the scenes work for a liability only policy is almost the same as for a full coverage policy. Many underwriters are pulling back from writing liability only coverage for these reasons. When you have fewer choices, then market forces drives the rate up. But again, if you ask any company that you already have a liability only quote from for a full coverage quote, the full coverage quote will be more. I just wanted to make it clear that they are not charging more for liability only policies than for full coverage, as you asserted

Hi, Susan, and thanks for the email as well.

So far the quotes we have received, more or less apples-to-apples, with all of our requirements (night sailing, unoccupied sometimes, taken ashore - maybe - occasionally, all year long, regardless of location - no personal property coverage - wreck removal, environmental damage), run at a low of about 500 to bumping up against 2000, so there's a very wide variance.

But it's moving, and extensive pictures seems, in some cases, have successfully countered the need for survey which, in a liability cover, can prove existence of the vessel (let alone my 'large footprint on the internet' as described by a correspondent on Facebook).

We're leaving the instant marina before we can secure the coverage, and in any event, the marina has disclosed that we can still moor or dock, but in the event of a named storm, would have to disconnect and go elsewhere. But we'll still do it as once done, it's no longer a question.

Susan, we're running around a lot today, but stand by for my reply to your email.

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

Who is the actual underwriter of that coverage?

From my notes:
Highseaslowrates.com specializes in Florida boat insurance! Your
Morgan 461 should not ne an issue. Accurate Insurance Mart - AIM - Auto, Homeowners, Commercial, Health

They have not yet responded...

[svtrio]

A quick glance at incorporation records suggest that highseaslowrates.com is a new company about 6-months old. Apparently it is based in Florida, and every company has to start somewhere, but it doesn’t make me feel confident that it will be there when I need it. Apparently they are offering insurance from other established companies.

TabbyCat, I’ve sent a message to you. I realized today that I’m likely to be without any insurance for my 1973 Snowgoose 34 at the end of this season.

I’m finishing an extensive refit
and I’m going to have spend some big boat bucks on various gear and necessaries for the survey. A real catch22. Why spend the money if I don’t have hope of coverage?

Without insurance, I won’t be able to remain in the Maryland boatyard or in my own slip in Florida.

Roger

[Argyle38]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Hi, Susan, and thanks for the email as well.

So far the quotes we have received, more or less apples-to-apples, with all of our requirements (night sailing, unoccupied sometimes, taken ashore - maybe - occasionally, all year long, regardless of location - no personal property coverage - wreck removal, environmental damage), run at a low of about 500 to bumping up against 2000, so there's a very wide variance.

But it's moving, and extensive pictures seems, in some cases, have successfully countered the need for survey which, in a liability cover, can prove existence of the vessel (let alone my 'large footprint on the internet' as described by a correspondent on Facebook).

We're leaving the instant marina before we can secure the coverage, and in any event, the marina has disclosed that we can still moor or dock, but in the event of a named storm, would have to disconnect and go elsewhere. But we'll still do it as once done, it's no longer a question.

Susan, we're running around a lot today, but stand by for my reply to your email.

Hey Skip,

What did you end up doing?

I'm in the same boat, so to speak, so I'm interested in what folks are finding. My quotes are similar to what you posted here, complicated additionally since I have a plan to sail out of the US this winter (hopefully).


-Argyle

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by Argyle38

Hey Skip,

What did you end up doing?

I'm in the same boat, so to speak, so I'm interested in what folks are finding. My quotes are similar to what you posted here, complicated additionally since I have a plan to sail out of the US this winter (hopefully).


-Argyle

We used what is an admittedly sketchy company found via a broker; it was solely to meet the requirements of liability insurance. Whether or not we'd actually get a claim paid, should there be one, is questionable, per the broker, but meets the specs of marinas requiring liability insurance.

We expected we'd eventually get a survey, but the admiral has declared that this is my final voyage (see pic for my reaction), so it's unlikely we'll pursue that....

[S/V Elusive]

Skip,

LTN Talk. A lot of talk here and on other threads about this same subject. Everyone seems to have a different story - EVERYONE has DIFFERENT situations!! From what I've been able to distill: Boats over 40 years old (and some only 20 or 30 - depending on who is quoting) and almost uninsurable and IMPOSSIBLE if you happen to liveaboard. Also, LOCATION and boat SIZE are a factor (as if the first two weren't enough).

So - The only carrier that I know of is Markel and with a newer survey (less tha two years old) for the following conditions:
Boat >40 years old, Sail, monohull
Boat >40 feet
Boat value >$65k
Location - West Coast (So Cal) USA
Owner - Mostly liveaboard


Can't find anyone else who will do liability or full coverage.


Thomas

[skipgundlach]

We're good for the marina we're usually in, due to an aging MIL/mother who's currently incarcerated (well, assisted living) there. We've not had any mention, let alone requirement, of insurance in the instances of using a marina on this, our presumed (I'm going to try an end-around run of merely the Bahamas, which don't scare the admiral as much as open water long-term cruising) last trip when we return from our 5 weeks (insane, but she insisted) at anchor near the subdivision where a daughter and a couple of grandkids live.

So, I don't expect anything other than to be allowed to stay on a mooring at Vero Beach City Marina in the event of a named storm as a result of that forced purchase...